I want to make great apple wine.

[Guldorn]

Hey all!

I've brewed beer, plenty of mead, and some cider before, but it was always using whatever method was simplest and easiest. I started drinking wine a few years ago and have really fallen in love. Recently I was lucky enough to tour a few wineries in the Napa Valley, specifically Schramsberg and Storybook Mountain, and after learning about Methode Traditionelle and talking to some of the growers/vintners and hearing their passion for their craft, I was inspired as well.

Sadly, I don't live in a part of the country that is conducive for growing grapes. However, I do live in a part of the country that grows fantastic apples, and I got to thinking... so now I'm here.

I reached out to a local university's cider and horticulture program for information but I figure this would be a good place to lurk and ask the odd question.

I want to make exceptional cider, but I know I've got a long way to go, so hopefully I can make something pretty good in the next decade or so with a little help.

 

[Ohio Bob]

Welcome to WMT!

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome aboard!

 

[sour_grapes]

Sadly, I don't live in a part of the country that is conducive for growing grapes.

Are you sure about that? Your other post said that you lived in Eastern Washington. That is one of the best grape-growing regions in the US!

 

[Guldorn]

Are you sure about that? Your other post said that you lived in Eastern Washington. That is one of the best grape-growing regions in the US!

I thought so as well- except the area I live in (Spokane) is right in the middle of a big dead zone. Which stings, because there's a smattering of amazing wineries a few hours south and west of me.

I suppose I could try buying grapes from semi-local growers, but for me there's an allure to optimizing and refining; and with apples it seems like people haven't put much thought into them beyond treating them as beer's cousin or a few one-off producers.

with that being said, I'll take another look and run it by some of the local universities. Maybe the climate has changed to be a little friendlier to wine. It would be cool to be in the same shoes as everyone who bought land around Napa before the 70's.

 

[sour_grapes]

Well, I have no interest in dissuading you from your apple quest. Sounds good to me.

But note that I live in Wisconsin, and *I* buy grapes from Eastern Washington!

 

[ChuckD]

Welcome to WMT. Cider and apple wine are very similar. I believe the only difference is that cider is pressed and fermented apple juice… therefore low ABV. Aplle wine has sugar added to raise the ABV.

Either way, go with a mix of apples and add some with astringent qualities. There are hundreds of heirloom apples out there that were developed specifically for cider.

 

[Guldorn]

Well, I have no interest in dissuading you from your apple quest. Sounds good to me.

But note that I live in Wisconsin, and *I* buy grapes from Eastern Washington!

Come to think of it, that's actually pretty encouraging. I was initially hoping to be able to be involved in the process, from soil to bottle, but it would still be cool to seek out grapes like I am apples (until I can plant my own). Care to share what grapes you like from here? Any specific growers that do better than others?

Welcome to WMT. Cider and apple wine are very similar. I believe the only difference is that cider is pressed and fermented apple juice… therefore low ABV. Aplle wine has sugar added to raise the ABV.

Either way, go with a mix of apples and add some with astringent qualities. There are hundreds of heirloom apples out there that were developed specifically for cider.

Thank you for the welcome and the information. I'll be digging through some varieties to see what can be found. I wonder what things like stems and skin will do for astringency versus choosing specific varieties... we'll have to see. In the meantime, my local health foods store just got in a shipment of a ton of varieties. One of which is winesap, which will be cool to play around with.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Welcome to WMT, from a fellow apple fermentor and grower.

 

[sour_grapes]

Care to share what grapes you like from here? Any specific growers that do better than others?

I am subject to the vagaries of what we can get in a group buy. I am fortunate that we have a group of home vintners in the Milwaukee area that arrange to buy a few tons. We vote on the grape variety each year, but generally one of: Merlot, Cab Sauv, Syrah, Pinot Noir. We often get our grapes from Kendall Farms: https://www.winegrapebroker.com Generally these are grown in the Prosser area, near the Tri-Cities.

 

[ChuckD]

I wonder what things like stems and skin will do for astringency versus choosing specific varieties... we'll have to see

I replied in more detail on another thread, but if you ferment chopped apples be ready for lots of lees. And apples are fairly dry, so you need lots of them.

 

[Raptor99]

Cider and apple wine are very similar. I believe the only difference is that cider is pressed and fermented apple juice… therefore low ABV. Aplle wine has sugar added to raise the ABV.

That is my perspective as well. The process is basically the same, except that for apple wine you add sugar.

Either way, go with a mix of apples and add some with astringent qualities. There are hundreds of heirloom apples out there that were developed specifically for cider.

The best cider or apple wine is made from cider apples, that have a good balance between sweetness, acidity, and tannins, and have a rich flavor. Most table apples are mainly sweet, so once the sugar is fermented there isn't that much left and they make an insipid, flabby wine or cider. You can make a good cider/wine by blending apples to get the right balance of sweetness, acidity, and tannins. Or you can use table apples and add malic acid and tannins to bring them into a balance more like cider apples.

There is a helpful discussion here: https://brooklynbrewshop.com/blogs/themash/apple-blending-basics-for-hard-cider and here: https://activegearreviews.com/best-apples-for-hard-cider/