Im freaking out. What have I done wrong?

[Rice_Guy]

The low technology way to lower temperature is, sit the carboy in a bucket of water or sink, place a wet towel on the shoulders of the carboy, and blow a fan over the wet towel.
Adding frozen liter/ 2 liter bottles of ice to the water gives a bit lower temperature.

 

[winemaker81]

20 to 24 C is fine. Cooler is often preferred, but that range works. @Rice_Guy's temperature tips work great!

 

[Xerxwine]

The low technology way to lower temperature is, sit the carboy in a bucket of water or sink, place a wet towel on the shoulders of the carboy, and blow a fan over the wet towel.
Adding frozen liter/ 2 liter bottles of ice to the water gives a bit lower temperature.

Great advice. Thank you

20 to 24 C is fine. Cooler is often preferred, but that range works. @Rice_Guy's temperature tips work great!

In the guide to red wine making guide you sent me, it says that for the secondary fermentation you need to add ml bacteria . I have no idea how where can I buy this in my country. It's already the third day after the racking.

Can secondary fermentation happen without MLF? Just let the wine sit for two weeks and then bottling it?

Edit:I'm googling and can't find it at all in my country

 

[mainshipfred]

Just like there is native yeast on grapes there is also native MLB. The problem is if you want to have your wine go through MLF it takes 2-3 months and the native MLB does not always finish. If you choose to attempt the native route do not add and sulfites and it makes it even more important to have the wine topped up to the fullest.

 

[winemaker81]

it says that for the secondary fermentation you need to add ml bacteria

Malolactic Fermentation (MLF) is not a requirement, it's an option. I've never inoculated for MLF -- while I'm thinking about trying it, I haven't done it. You have enough other issues that I recommend you ignore the issue for now. You can revisit it later, if you wish.

As @mainshipfred stated, wild malolactic bacteria (MLB) is present and MLF will probably start, but the bacteria may not complete the job of converting malic acid into lactic acid. Most folks that want MLF inoculate so they get a known strain.

Regarding wild/natural yeast and bacteria vs. cultured/commercial versions -- all grapes have 1 or more yeast strains living on the skins. This is a major reason why grapes = wine, as grape juice turns into wine unless you pasteurize it. And then yeast in the air may land so it may ferment anyway ...

Cultured yeast WAS wild yeast, but specific strains were isolated and cultured. These yeasts are selected for their specific properties. e.g., flocculation, doesn't produce H2S, enhances aroma, enhances color extraction, etc. When you buy commercial yeast, you know what you are getting. When you go with a "natural" ferment, you get whatever yeast was growing on your grapes' skin.

It's noted that the highly successful wineries of Europe founded their success on the climate, soil, topography, and grape variety. I'm of the opinion that dumb luck played a vital role, in that they got lucky that a very useful (to humans) strain of yeast is what dominated their vineyards.

Winemaking is part art, part science, part history, mixed with fun conversation!

 

[Xerxwine]

I'm at a point which I have no idea whether to keep the wine outside or inside. I have put my wine outside in the balcony for 8 days now. I tasted it(weather changes from 6 Celsius to 15 Celsius). It doesn't taste good tbh. Not like vinegar but not the way i thought it should. I highly doubt malolactic fermentation has taken place

On the other hand my room temperature is 28 C.

Is it better to bring it inside? or is that cold weather fine?

Note: I have no other place to keep the wine and I can't open my room window 24/7 because of airpolution and dust (I don't even care if I get cold but the other two problems I mentioned annoys me more)

 

[winemaker81]

@Xerxwine, your wine is brand new -- it's not going to taste good at this point. Time is your friend.

As long as the wine doesn't freeze, the cooler temperature is fine. Your room is warmer than I expected -- we keep our house around 20-22 C in the winter.

 

[Xerxwine]

Your room is warmer than I expected -- we keep our house around 20-22 C in the winter.

It's because the pipes that lead to the radiator is in my room and since the pipes are hot , they make the room warmer.

your wine is brand new -- it's not going to taste good at this point. Time is your friend.

As long as the wine doesn't freeze, the cooler temperature is fine.

Ok. Thanks a lot.

I'll update the result at the time of bottling

 

[winemaker81]

It's because the pipes that lead to the radiator is in my room and since the pipes are hot , they make the room warmer.

I had an apartment like that -- rooms closest to the boilers were ... boiling.

Ok. Thanks a lot.

I'll update the result at the time of bottling

Read the tasting notes from my wine stix experiment. This demonstrates how wine can change over time. We bottled these wines last month and are very pleased with the result.

 

[Rice_Guy]

as @winemaker81 said your wine is fine, it takes time for the yeast to do their work and settle.
Cold will not hurt the wine, I have examples here where the garage is the winery and it gets to 26F or I have stuff in a freezer at -10F. As long as the glass carboy doesn’t crack it eventually warms back up and finishes. Biological reactions stop at about 3C, a malolactic/ organism fermentation stops at 11 to 12C. Chemical reactions slow down 50% every 10C but never actually stop.
Hot temperatures will speed reactions which include old age in the wine. Hot will speed things if you are not patient.
My compromise would be to create a box on an outside wall to keep most of the temperature away from the ferment and slow the age process. (ex furniture or table or cardboard on a cold outside wall)

Is it better to bring it inside? or is that cold weather fine?

 

[Xerxwine]

I had an apartment like that -- rooms closest to the boilers were ... boiling.


Read the tasting notes from my wine stix experiment. This demonstrates how wine can change over time. We bottled these wines last month and are very pleased with the result.

Should I buy toasted oaks and add them to the wine or is it too late?

as @winemaker81 said your wine is fine, it takes time for the yeast to do their work and settle.
Cold will not hurt the wine, I have examples here where the garage is the winery and it gets to 26F or I have stuff in a freezer at -10F. As long as the glass carboy doesn’t crack it eventually warms back up and finishes. Biological reactions stop at about 3C, a malolactic/ organism fermentation stops at 11 to 12C. Chemical reactions slow down 50% every 10C but never actually stop.
Hot temperatures will speed reactions which include old age in the wine. Hot will speed things if you are not patient.
My compromise would be to create a box on an outside wall to keep most of the temperature away from the ferment and slow the age process. (ex furniture or table or cardboard on a cold outside wall)

Yes I should create a box. You are right. Thanks a lot

 

[Rice_Guy]

oak can be toasted at 150C and higher, ie a coffee roaster, there are several species which have been used for flavoring. The old purpose was to keep wine in wood barrels which were made from oak, toasting was a method for cleaning the barrel. ,,,, no you could do it in the month it is used.
The standard container in Greek and Roman times was the clay amphora (wide mouth jar).

Should I buy toasted oaks and add them to the wine or is it too late?

 

[winemaker81]

Should I buy toasted oaks and add them to the wine or is it too late?

Oak is used in 2 ways -- fermentation and aging. During fermentation the presence of oak helps preserve color and natural grape tannins.

During aging the oak provides flavoring, and can be added any time after fermentation completes.

Using oak or not is a personal decision -- do you want oak flavoring? You have 2 containers so you could add oak to one so you can see the difference.

White oak is the most commonly used wood, although other woods are usable but produce different flavors. Oak used for winemaking is generally aged at least 1.5 years, and as @Rice_Guy said, it's toasted.

How much to use? I use 1.5 to 2 oz (42.5 to 56.7 g) per 5 US gallons (19 liters). Dividing that out, it's 8.5 to 11.3 g per 4 liters. Folks that want a lighter flavor may age for only a month on oak, although for full flavoring 3 to 5 months is generally required.

 

[Xerxwine]

oak can be toasted at 150C and higher, ie a coffee roaster, there are several species which have been used for flavoring. The old purpose was to keep wine in wood barrels which were made from oak, toasting was a method for cleaning the barrel. ,,,, no you could do it in the month it is used.
The standard container in Greek and Roman times was the clay amphora (wide mouth jar).

Great info as always. I decided to buy it from this guy I found on the internet. He sells toasted oaks. I don't have oven so I can't do it by my own. Hopefully he made it in a sanitized way and I don't die from aging my wine for a month with oak pieces.

Oak is used in 2 ways -- fermentation and aging. During fermentation the presence of oak helps preserve color and natural grape tannins.

During aging the oak provides flavoring, and can be added any time after fermentation completes.

Using oak or not is a personal decision -- do you want oak flavoring? You have 2 containers so you could add oak to one so you can see the difference.

White oak is the most commonly used wood, although other woods are usable but produce different flavors. Oak used for winemaking is generally aged at least 1.5 years, and as @Rice_Guy said, it's toasted.

How much to use? I use 1.5 to 2 oz (42.5 to 56.7 g) per 5 US gallons (19 liters). Dividing that out, it's 8.5 to 11.3 g per 4 liters. Folks that want a lighter flavor may age for only a month on oak, although for full flavoring 3 to 5 months is generally required.

The weather is getting very cold. probably 0 C at midnight and it might get colder until the next month.
I'm not sure if it's right to add the oak today and wait for it for another month? I think one of the users here told me wine freezing temperature is -15C. Should I add more oaks than the amount you said and then take them out after two weeks instead of a month and bottle it?

 

[Rice_Guy]

Wine, any low soluble solids 11% alcohol liquid, will start to form ice crystals around -2C/ 28F. This is a slushy mix of ice and a concentrated liquid with a higher percentage alcohol. ,,, water freezes first and the percentage alcohol is dynamic, ,,, -15C sounds correct for creating a solid block with small pockets of very concentrated alcohol.
You can add oak when it is convenient, it will be extracting even below zero C. Your advantage at being above -2 is that tasting with removal of oak can be estimated.
A toasted oak is a sanitary product much the same as if you mixed charcoal from a fire into a liquid to decolonize it, your risk is if it has been contaminated after toasting.

 

[winemaker81]

While you can double the oak for a shorter period of time, it won't necessarily produce the same result. As the wine soaks into the wood over time, different flavors are extracted as the wood is toasted on the surface and less so below the surface.

However, if time is an issue for you (and it appears to be), you can try it. Keep in mind that after fermentation, time is an ingredient in everything you do with the wine.

Winemaking has few hard-n-fast rules, but it has a lot of guidelines based upon things folks have tried in the past.

Personally, I don't let wine go below 0. A friend had a case partially freeze (left it in the back seat of his car), and the wine tasted odd afterward. I had one glass and called it enough. He eventually finished the case (we were young and the wine contained alcohol, so he ignored the taste! )

 

[Xerxwine]

Wine, any low soluble solids 11% alcohol liquid, will start to form ice crystals around -2C/ 28F. This is a slushy mix of ice and a concentrated liquid with a higher percentage alcohol. ,,, water freezes first and the percentage alcohol is dynamic, ,,, -15C sounds correct for creating a solid block with small pockets of very concentrated alcohol.
You can add oak when it is convenient, it will be extracting even below zero C. Your advantage at being above -2 is that tasting with removal of oak can be estimated.
A toasted oak is a sanitary product much the same as if you mixed charcoal from a fire into a liquid to decolonize it, your risk is if it has been contaminated after toasting.

While you can double the oak for a shorter period of time, it won't necessarily produce the same result. As the wine soaks into the wood over time, different flavors are extracted as the wood is toasted on the surface and less so below the surface.

However, if time is an issue for you (and it appears to be), you can try it. Keep in mind that after fermentation, time is an ingredient in everything you do with the wine.

Winemaking has few hard-n-fast rules, but it has a lot of guidelines based upon things folks have tried in the past.

Personally, I don't let wine go below 0. A friend had a case partially freeze (left it in the back seat of his car), and the wine tasted odd afterward. I had one glass and called it enough. He eventually finished the case (we were young and the wine contained alcohol, so he ignored the taste! )

Thanks a lot for your informative response. I'm very grateful for finding this forum

I won't try the oak. It's too late tbh. I'm pretty sure last night the weather was very cold because when I went outside today the water surfaces were frozen.

I'm not even sure if the malolactic fermentation has finished or not because I want to bottle the wines tomorrow or the day after and I've heard it could cause the cork to pop out

BTW, should I use k-meta for cleaning the bottles I'm going to buy? after i use k-meta should i wash it again with boiled water so the taste of k-meta doesn't get into the wine? I wanna use k-meta for siphon hose and bottles before the final action

Sorry if I asked a lot of questions for this Thread

 

[winemaker81]

should I use k-meta for cleaning the bottles I'm going to buy? after i use k-meta should i wash it again with boiled water so the taste of k-meta doesn't get into the wine? I wanna use k-meta for siphon hose and bottles before the final action

Yes, use K-meta. No, don't rinse. You should add K-meta to the wine anyway (1/4 tsp per 5 or 6 gallons) as a preservative, so a bit more from the solution doesn't matter.

The folks who answer questions appear to enjoy it -- I know I do. Winemaking is boring 99% of the time, so this gives us something to think about. Besides, your situation is somewhat novel (for me anyway) and it's a nice change to have something different from the typical questions.

 

[Rice_Guy]

1 you did not inoculate so you are probably safe, if you had inoculated the bacteria are inactive under 15C therefore when it warms up bottles could explode
2 meta and hot water is an either or choice. in a factory with new glass bottles we just use hot water, if reusing bottles I might put the chemical in

1) I'm not even sure if the malolactic fermentation has finished or not because I want to bottle the wines tomorrow or the day after and I've heard it could cause the cork to pop out
2) BTW, should I use k-meta for cleaning the bottles I'm going to buy? after i use k-meta should i wash it again with boiled water so the taste of k-meta doesn't get into the wine? I wanna use k-meta for siphon hose and bottles before the final action

 

[Xerxwine]

Yes, use K-meta. No, don't rinse. You should add K-meta to the wine anyway (1/4 tsp per 5 or 6 gallons) as a preservative, so a bit more from the solution doesn't matter.
The folks who answer questions appear to enjoy it -- I know I do. Winemaking is boring 99% of the time, so this gives us something to think about. Besides, your situation is somewhat novel (for me anyway) and it's a nice change to have something different from the typical questions.

I found someone who sells potassium metabisulfite which I thought it's impossible to find here. Since I have two containers (10 litre and 6 litre=4.5 gallons combined) would it be too much to add 1/4 tsp k-meta (potassium metabisulfite+acid citric)to each container? should I again wait before bottling since a rotten like smell is going to be produced?
btw I am going to buy a hand corker which is like this . cheapest one since i cant pay for the expensive one.
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