Is it worth it to make a second run wine?

[AFW]

I have my Chambourcin Pomace vacuum bagged and frozen. Thinking about making a second run or using it in another kit wine. Searched for this topic and found several discussions not too favorable to second run mentioning the tasted flat or no body etc.

If this were you what would you do, make a second wine or use it in a kit or trash it?

This is my first time making wine from grapes so….

 

[VinesnBines]

I made a kit on Chambourcin skins, frozen from my 2023 harvest. It was a Cab Sav kit. I think it turn out nice. Winemaker_81 is using Chambourcin and Chelois pomace with Pinot Noir juice buckets so he can give you a different perspective.,

My 2024 harvest was so huge that I didn’t bother with saving pomace.

Second runs, in my opinion are second rate. Use a kit or juice buckets to add to the pomace . Again, Winemaker_81 is your expert.

 

[winemaker81]

I won't say I'm an expert, but I've tried numerous variations so I do have a breadth of experience.

A typical second run wine is for every 2 gallons of wine from the first run, add: 1 gallon water, 2 lbs sugar, 1 tsp acid, 1/4 tsp tannin. The quality of the wine will vary directly to how much the first run was pressed. The harder it is pressed, the less "oomph" there is remaining in the pomace. The grapes have only so much to give, and if it all goes into the first run, there's nothing for the second run so a "meh" wine is produced.

My results by year:

2019 -- made standard second run wine from pomace of 15 total lugs Merlot, Zinfandel, and other Bordeaux grapes. I pressed the first run lightly and got a seriously good wine from the second run. I segregated the final pressings -- some was used for barrel topup, and the last carboy was bottled as-is. That wine was good for 4 years, which is about double that might be expected of a second run wine.

2020 -- Did the same with 16 lugs Bordeaux grapes, but pressed the first run harder. I have a basket press so pressing depth is by eye. This second run turned out ok, but was second rate. I used most of it for cooking.

2021 -- made only kits, so no second run wine.

2022 -- tried something different, adding the pomace from 8 lugs Grenache to a FWK Tavola Merlot kit. Did the same with 8 lugs Tempranillo. This came out rather good, the Grenache more so than the Tempranillo. The pomace had enough oomph that the Grenache/Merlot has a lot of Grenache flavor. The final result of this is that I'm unlikely to make a second run wine with water again.

2023 -- Added the pomace from 20 lugs CF, CS, and Merlot to a pair of 23 liter Sangiovese juice buckets. That ratio of pomace to juice was high -- it was hard to "punch down". We also pressed rather lightly and grossed just short of 24 gallons, which spent 12 months in barrel. The result was bottled last month and is stellar. Note that this wine is essentially half Sangiovese, half from the first run.

2024 -- Added pomace from 300 lbs each Chambourcin and Chelois (purchased from @VinesnBines) to a pair of 23 liter Pinot Noir juice buckets. We apparently pressed harder, and grossed 17 gallons (this is not a problem). This wine is totally green but the post-pressing tasting is positive, and is now in barrel until next fall.


So ... my advice is that if you pressed the pomace hard, don't expect much from a second run wine made with water. Adding it to a kit should produce positive results, although it will vary depending on how hard you pressed, and how much pomace you have with respect to the kit or juice bucket.

 

[sour_grapes]

I don't have nearly that much experience, but let me chime in my 2 cents worth. It sorta depends on what you want to get out of it.

I made a second-run wine the first time I made wine from grapes. I recall someone here on WMT advising me something like "we've all been there and done that, but it isn't really worth it." To which I replied that *I* hadn't been there and done it, so I needed to do so. One of the important things to me was to get another round of practice in for making wine from grapes (as there really isn't much difference there between first-run and second-run wines). And it was essentially free.

I pressed the first-run wine very hard, leaving little goodness. The result was okay, but not exactly "wine." In our household, we referred to it as "a wine-like substance" or "sloppy seconds." It made a very easy-drinking quaff. Despite it being nominally a red wine, I served it chilled as a summer "porch pounder," and it filled the bill adequately.

So, I didn't regret making that wine, but I never did it again. If I still made kits, I would certainly add it to a kit. Adding to a bucket seems like a fine idea, too.

 

[Rocky]

A typical second run wine is for every 2 gallons of wine from the first run, add: 1 gallon water, 2 lbs sugar, 1 tsp acid, 1/4 tsp tannin. The quality of the wine will vary directly to how much the first run was pressed. The harder it is pressed, the less "oomph" there is remaining in the pomace. The grapes have only so much to give, and if it all goes into the first run, there's nothing for the second run so a "meh" wine is produced.

We always made a "second wine" at home, many years ago and it was very decent wine. I believe part of the reason is that we did not press the first wine at all. We just let the free run out of the working barrels and moved that into finishing barrels. All of the grapes skins were still in the working barrel, to which water and sugar was added. The free run wine was marked "Per la famiglia" and was only for family, special occasions and good friends. The second wine was more an "everyday" wine for casual drinking and cooking.

 

[AFW]

Thanks for the advice. I have a small basket press ( not a ratchet type ) so probably didn’t press it hard but pressed it good. So probably add to a Juice bucket or a kit that is a red wine like a Merlot.

 

[winemaker81]

We always made a "second wine" at home, many years ago and it was very decent wine. I believe part of the reason is that we did not press the first wine at all. We just let the free run out of the working barrels and moved that into finishing barrels. All of the grapes skins were still in the working barrel, to which water and sugar was added. The free run wine was marked "Per la famiglia" and was only for family, special occasions and good friends. The second wine was more an "everyday" wine for casual drinking and cooking.

One of my early mentors did something like this. He had food grade plastic barrels with spouts that he used as primaries. Post-fermentation he'd drain off the first run, then start the second without pressing. After that was done fermenting, he drain it. This typically provided him with two 60 US gallon barrels of first run and one barrel of second run.

Then he'd press the pomace, and divide that wine (which he called "squeezins") among the 3 barrels. His second run was about as good as most others' first runs.

Most of the guys I knew did things as I previously described.

 

[BigDaveK]

I think it's absolutely worthwhile to try at least once. The results might surprise you!

 

[Garagista]

My humble opinion - throwing away grape pomace is a crime against nature. It should be used to make more wine. Use a Finer Wine kit as the base and it will be exceptional.