Is perfectly 'clear' wine impossible?

[saramc]

1. The wine itself is clear though, other than the white flecks that are appearing? Or is the wine also hazy?
2. What temperature are you storing this wine at? Wondering if this is a heat stabilization issue. And all of your problematic wines are stored at this temp?
3. Have you been using k-meta granules exclusively or Campden tabs?
4. Is there any chance you added the chitosan/kieselsol in wrong order?
5. What are you using to clean/sanitize, do you rinse?
6. Are your filter pads being re-used or a one time use and toss?

And this has happened with every kit you have made? Are you deviating from the kit instructions at all, skipping something, adding something?

Can you attach a photo of a bottle with a light source behind plus a sample in a glass?

Call me crazy but is cold stabilization a normal process for any of these kits? I looked at the instructions for the RJS EP kit and saw no reference to cold stabilization, just storage below 60F (which is common and helps expedite clearing).

Great article by Lum Eisenman on Clarification/Stabilization @ http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...-maDfrKCETs39d8wg&sig2=foJC5y6EcfvxH7BFhTNGJg

 

[Chiumanfu]

I had the exact same thing happen in a EP Pinot Grigio. Bulk aged 6 months, filtered before bottling with WHF 1 micron. Only half the batch was affected.

Joe also describes it here...
http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f6/dirty-wine-23805/

I never did find a reason.

 

[Gekko4321]

BTOM, I run bottled water thru the filter as recommended before using. I also note no fibers in the bottle for 3 weeks so not a filter issue. I also have no tears in filter.

 

[Gekko4321]

Saramc, I note no issue initially, just after 3 weeks plus. It is harder to see in reds but easy in whites. I use K meta granules. I have sanitized with both k meta and star san. Same issue. I never mix up instruction process. I never would reuse a filter pad. Who would? When I got to max frustration I spoke with George. He told me that kit wines could never be clear like commercial wines. This was the opposite of what he told me when he helped me get into this hobby. I enjoyed the 3 wines I made but ultimately was disappointed that with ALL the work and study I could not emulate a simple, cheap wine in presentation. This hobby is hard!

 

[Gekko4321]

Also, Cold stabilization is rec'ed on most boards to get rid of wine diamonds which are inevitable in kit wines. Whites they are obvious. Chemicals are sold to 'delay' the onset in RJ Spagnols wines but it is argued whether it works. I did CS and added chemicals in some to see and they all got it within 6 months. I find that issue to be seperate of 'stuff' floating in wine. I personally think most hobbyists arent this particular in presentation. Either they dont care or simply been doing it so long they dont notice.

 

[saramc]

If the additive is metatartaric acid, the bottled wine needs to be stored below 68F to keep crystals from forming for up to 18 months. Didn't you say you are storing at house temp, typically 68-70?
Also, if the metataric acid is added when fining agents are on board or added before filtration the effect can be impacted. Typically added after racking/filtering and just prior to bottling. Could this be part of it?

 

[Gekko4321]

I added the meta acid prior to bottling 6 months after fining agents added. I added it 24 hours prior to adding one last dose of K meta but was advised that was not an issue. I do filter as last step before bottling. I would doubt Vinbrite filter would block meta acid though. I do store at house temps of 68-70, yes.

 

[Midwest Vintner]

We have had some settling issues also. Our problem is we use whole fruits and getting the solids out is a major pain. We are working at fixing it, but it is hard to change temps (like cold stabilizing) when you have already bottled wine that hadn't been cold stabilized (aging). Just not enough storage. We have got it to minor amounts in the bottom, but it just looks bad when selling a wine and it shakes up a small cloud. All of the bottles are not affected nor all the wines though. Just some of the wines and bottles.

Solutions.
Time. Due to limit storage, we can't keep too much on hand of both bulk or bottled. It's selling too fast to get everything in "sync" to be able to do batches just once a year. We have 100, 200 and 300 gal tanks.

Stabilization. Like others have stated, cold/warm works. First warm, to pull out CO2. Then cool/cold to both settle and/or remove diamonds. Some wines are better left with the extra acidity. Cold stabilizing every wine is not always the best way (although might be easier). That is up to you. Cooling will help drop solids, but it doesn't necessarily mean dropping it low enough to form "wine diamonds"

Fining agents. We have used bentonite, but we are limited. When we used to make homemade wine, we used others that are faster and a little easier to use. They do work, especially if you can identify what is causing the haze.

Filtering. It does work, BUT you can over filter. I personally have been recently experimenting with different stages. I have concluded that it does work, BUT each wine is different and some filters may or may not be enough. I have used everything from 10 micron to .22 in stages and sometimes twice through. All of which are only the 95% NON-absolute type filters. Even the .22 didn't FULLY clear a wine, which was the last one in which will ever have any dust (very minor, but annoying!). I will, in the future use absolute filters on stubborn wines for fine filtering. Our wines have lots of fruit, but I can without a doubt, notice changes in wines filtered down to even 1 micron on a NON-absolute filter. It does change the wine color and taste, but maybe that is because our wine has so much.

In conclusion, in my somewhat professional opinion (lol), I think the BEST answer is all of the above. I placed them in order I think should they should be used. If you have experience with that variety, you can get a better grasp on which works best for it. I like filtering as it's fast and easily controlled, but it is a last resort. In my honest opinion, commercial wineries are sometimes too worried about looks of a wine. I am most concerned with flavor. Commercial sized batches are MUCH more difficult to clear and that is why filtering is so common. This is a major advantage of homemade wine. No pressure. Plus, IMO, haze won't kill you. Do you really want your drink triple filtered, treated and half way frozen? Maybe I just see wine different? I like it as LEAST treated as possible! That's just how I see it. I like my steak med-rare on the closer to rare side, though too.

 

[Gekko4321]

"Do you really want your drink triple filtered, treated and half way frozen?"
Great way to frame it and good point! Ha ha. I agree flavor is paramount, but I think when one is new to the hobby, they want to share/show off their work also, and that is where presentation does matter.

 

[Midwest Vintner]

"Do you really want your drink triple filtered, treated and half way frozen?"
Great way to frame it and good point! Ha ha. I agree flavor is paramount, but I think when one is new to the hobby, they want to share/show off their work also, and that is where presentation does matter.

Very true, but if it isn't that good tasting, the looks are unimportant. A crystal clear wine that tastes bad because you oxidized it trying to filter it 3 times, treated it with too much chitosen/ bentonite/ pectic enzyme/ etc.(not likely but is possible) and cold stabilized isn't a great idea either.

My basic point is this. Let it sit! You can degas (I splash rack, but vacuum filtering is best) it after fermentation has been done for a month (just to make sure - this would actually be your 2nd racking after it has already been under air lock) and add a little sulphite. Let it sit for however long it takes to drop out. If you don't see ANY clarity improvements after 3 months, then start working on it. If you are seeing stuff drop, it will clear eventually. I had had stubborn homemade wines sit for over a year. We RARELY filter and rarely had any sediment at all with making whole fruit wines. It was only when we jumped up to 100+ gallons that it's gotten more tricky.

 

[Sammyk]

whole house filter

Does anyone have a model number or something to identify which model you are using? And where to purchase?

 

[Boatboy24]

Does anyone have a model number or something to identify which model you are using? And where to purchase?

Just ordered this yesterday from FiltersFast:

Order Details:
158116 Pentek 158116 10" Slim Line Fi
PD-5-934 Ametek, US Filter PD-5-934, WP
244047 Pentek 3G SL Bracket Kit for S
PD-1-934 Pentek PD-1-934 Polydepth Filt
SW-1A Pentek SW-1a Filter Wrench, WW

PD-5 is the 5 micron filter. PD-1 is the 1 micron.