If you added the correct amount of Malo nutrients you should just add another dose of extra "P". Usually a month is about the shortest time for complete MLF.
It Is Done
- Thread starter Johnd
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
As the Zin is creeping through MLF, I couldn't resist a little taste test tonite, and wasn't disappointed. The fruit is huge, it's very bold and quite tannic, I'm really looking forward to getting it into a barrel hopefully some time this summer.
Ran a chromo on the Zin, it's just not moving. Below is the chromo test, the Zin is the one in the middle. Scroll back up to the two previous posts, really no progress to speak of.
Conditions as follows:
Temps constant at 75 F for four months, well in range
pH 3.31, above the tolerance of 3.1
ABV 14.2%, below 16% tolerance
SO2 at 0 ppm for four months, well below 50 ppm limit
VP41 rehydrated according to recommendations, with ActiML, OptiMalo used in wine per manuf. recommendations
VP41 rehydrated and pitched again, including all nutrients about a month ago.
Wine still looks and smells great, so no ill effects of being KMS free, I'm just not feeling like pushing the envelope any further. Once I sulfite it, it can still be below the 50 ppm threshold, but in the wine room, temps at 60 not so lovely.
Thoughts? Am I missing something?
Conditions as follows:
Temps constant at 75 F for four months, well in range
pH 3.31, above the tolerance of 3.1
ABV 14.2%, below 16% tolerance
SO2 at 0 ppm for four months, well below 50 ppm limit
VP41 rehydrated according to recommendations, with ActiML, OptiMalo used in wine per manuf. recommendations
VP41 rehydrated and pitched again, including all nutrients about a month ago.
Wine still looks and smells great, so no ill effects of being KMS free, I'm just not feeling like pushing the envelope any further. Once I sulfite it, it can still be below the 50 ppm threshold, but in the wine room, temps at 60 not so lovely.
Thoughts? Am I missing something?
Try a different strain of MLB perhaps CH16. Gentle stir every few days seems to help keep thing moving along. In my experience a pH of less than 3.4 is hard to get malo going at times.
Ohhhh, now you tell me!! LOL. I hate to raise the pH at this point in time, after working a high Brix must down to earth and getting the pH at 3.3 and TA at 6. Maybe I'll try the CH 16. What's the SO2 tolerance? Couldn't find it on the data sheet, recommends pH 3.4??
![[Upgraded] 9Pcs Tree Root Growing Box with Drain Holes, Half Transparent Plant Rooting Propagation Ball & Metal Core Twist Ties, for Fast Propagation Plants (Size M)](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/514MWQxtWOL._SL500_.jpg)
TA on the Zin is 6.0, right in the wheelhouse.
Well, that's two votes for pH 3.4+. I'm no fool, advice I'll use going forward. As I was working my TA up to 6.5 and monitoring the pH, I was using the VP 41 pH of 3.1+ as my danger line. I stopped at 6.0 and 3.3 thinking I was solidly in the zone of acceptability. It's my first grape wine, think I'm going to SO2 it in the carboy, 35 ppm, til my next barrel is free. Bump up the pH, barrel it, and pitch another MLB in the barrel. This wine is getting expensive!
Tnuscan
Tnuscan=Tennesseean
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Messages
- 975
- Reaction score
- 329
At 3.3 pH and 6.0 TA, I don't feel these levels are that bad. I thought your TA might be really high but it isn't. I wouldn't hesitate to start at those levels.
Yup, me too. Started with a pretty high Brix, 28 or 29, TA 5ish. Had to use acidulated water to get the Brix down, TA up, and pH down. Was pretty proud of my efforts.
stickman
Veteran Winemaker
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,930
- Reaction score
- 2,248
John, I hope everything works out in the end. This is a good example of how tricky and variable winemaking can be. It is difficult to get good measurements on recently thawed frozen fruit. I agree with Mike on the PH being a bit low, also the alcohol content may be slightly higher than you think, and those two variables together can exaggerate each other. I've had good ML results over the years with CH16, but my PH has always been higher.
No doubt, it's not a connect the dots puzzle. I'm pretty confident in my early readings of sugar content, confirmed with both a refractometer and hydrometer on 75 F must two days in a row. pH done over two days samples as well, with only slight change post fermentation and over the last few months. All other variables being in line, points to your observation of lowish pH, which I'll address in subsequent months.
Just got finished doing the deed. Sulfited the Zinfandel up to 35 ppm free SO2, and I feel better even though MLF isn't finished yet. I don't view this as a failure, I'm just not finished yet......
I'm late to the party and just read through the posts. Lots of great info. Sounds like the patience had ran out. I hear ya. We have been rolling the dice on our Malbec batch with the MLF. It's been about 16 weeks into MLF and it's been slow. We have dropped bacteria twice. First was whitelabs WLP675. Then later with Enoferm. Seemed to pick up after the second bacteria add but still creeping along. Doing a chromo test this weekend and saying a prayer that it is ready. (Might give up and SO2 regardless). I would like to hear how things turn out since you believed the the MLF wasn't finished before the SO2 add. Wonder if any ill effect. Hope not. Good luck.
Tim:
It's sulfited and still resting comfortably at 75F in glass, and tastes great. When my next barrel is free, I'll pull it out of the refrigerated cellar, adjust the pH up on the Zin, and barrel it with some new MLB. Time will tell the tale.
After bottling two wines this morning, decided to work on the Zin pH a bit. Racked it off of the fine lees into a new carboy, very clear, had a taste, it's a little rough around the edges, but the fruit is really big, and the tannins Are good for me. Pretty decent mouthfeel and a surprisingly long finish.
Calibrated the meter and checked the starting pH at 3.31. 1 gram per liter of potassium bicarbonate should raise the pH by .1, which would put me at 3.41, pretty easy, right? As always, small increments, so I started with only 1/2 of the dose, so 11.5 g. Thiefed a bit into a beaker and dosed it, mixed it really well (it turns almost black), and added it back into the carboy, stirred really well and put the airlock back on for an hour.
Stirred well an hour later and checked the pH, 3.46!! So it went up .15 with half the dose, but that's why we go slow. Happy with the outcome of the adjustment, and the MLF barrel will be free in a couple of weeks.
Calibrated the meter and checked the starting pH at 3.31. 1 gram per liter of potassium bicarbonate should raise the pH by .1, which would put me at 3.41, pretty easy, right? As always, small increments, so I started with only 1/2 of the dose, so 11.5 g. Thiefed a bit into a beaker and dosed it, mixed it really well (it turns almost black), and added it back into the carboy, stirred really well and put the airlock back on for an hour.
Stirred well an hour later and checked the pH, 3.46!! So it went up .15 with half the dose, but that's why we go slow. Happy with the outcome of the adjustment, and the MLF barrel will be free in a couple of weeks.
