Italian floor corker incompatible with certain bottle finishes?

[Farmer Grey]

I have a Ferrari floor corker - brass jaws - and have only put a few cases of bottles through it. This is the first time that I've had problems but also the first time I've used #9 corks. The #8s I was using went in fine when spritz'd with some StarSan. That wine was consumed, the bottles cleaned, and now the bottles are filled with a different brew that will need to age for longer than the previous batch. I've decided that I'd better use the #9s for maximum shelf life, as there is simply no telling how long it will take before this raspberry wine is drinkable... maybe never! In any event, I can't for the life of me get the #9 corks to go into these bottles and I've decided it's an issue with the bottles not centering properly in the top "well" of the corker. The corks get mangled as they are pushed in, resulting in cork shrapnel floating in the bottle and the cork not fully inserted. Upon withdrawal of the cork, additional shrapnel comes off and is left in the wine.

The finish on the neck of the Encore mold #2103 bottles seems to be a fairly standard one to my untrained eye but when placed in the corker it does have a fair amount of play when compared to, say, a fat bar top bottle. I can insert a #9 easily and cleanly into the fat necks of a dessert icewine bottle. Are some bottles known to not play well with floor corkers? I only have two cases of this particular bottle so it's not the end of the world if I need to recycle them and invest in different ones but I want to make sure that I'm buying bottles that I can reuse with my floor corker since most of what we make is consumed in-house.

I wasn't sure if this was a floor corker issue or a bottle issue so please accept my apologies if this was the wrong subforum for this topic.

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

I looked at the bottle you mentioned, and it appears to be a typical Bordeaux style bottle.

When you put the bottle in the corker, look down through the jaws to ensure the bottle mouth is lined up with the hole. I've been using my corker for 30+ years and have noticed that some bottles seem to line up automatically, while others don't, so I always verify that the bottle is lined up prior to dropping the cork in between the jaws.

I use only #9 corks, a mixture of 1-1/2" and 1-3/4"m, insert them dry (I keep corks sealed in the bag), and have no problems.

 

[Bmd2k1]

I have a mish mosh of various types of both bordeaux and burgundy style bottles from various wineries and vendors that I use with my ferrari floor corker -- and I occasionally run across a bottle that doesn't get the #9 nomacorc in as much as the majority of the rest of the bottles do -- sometimes maybe and 1/8th or 1/16th of an inch will be above the top of the bottle. I tend to note these and remove them from my recycled inventory.

Welcome to WMT and Cheers!

 

[Farmer Grey]

When I sight down the the closed iris, the bottle is definitely not centered and no amount of fiddling around will get it to remain centered during the process of inserting the cork. You'd think that it would be self-centering to a certain degree, once the cork begins to insert but such is not the case.

I have two different bags of #9 duo disc corks, freshly opened, from two different suppliers and whether wet or dry, I cannot get them in these bottles. The agglomerated #8s go in fine.

 

[Farmer Grey]

I'm wondering now if there is a manufacturing defect in the symmetry of the "well" that holds the top of the bottle.

 

[winemaker81]

Do other bottles line up correctly?

 

[Farmer Grey]

A caliper tells me that the neck of the "problem" bottle is 27mm while the dessert bottle that will seat correctly is 31mm

 

[Farmer Grey]

I don't think I have other bottles to try but I will go have a rummage and see

 

[Farmer Grey]

Ugh, yes, it's the exterior diameter of the neck finish that's the sticking point. 27 or 28mm outside diameter bottles won't center and take a cork. 30-31mm will. Sounds like it's a manufacturing defect that I just didn't notice while I was using the #8s.

 

[Farmer Grey]

I bought it in June of 2020 from Morebeer.com. I just called them and spoke with customer service. The nice lady I spoke with is going to have someone email me about the problem I'm having.

 

[Farmer Grey]

After a lot of fussing around, I was able to get a bottle with a 27mm diameter top to accept a #9 cork relatively smoothly but I had to "massage" the cork first by compressing it several times and hold the bottle "just so" and basically stand on one foot and close one eye and bite my tongue. Plus, it was a bottle with a more smoothly rounded interior lip than the kind of bottle I was attempting to cork. If I had a cork with a chamfered edge, it might be compatible with these bottles, with a similar amount of coddling. Shouldn't have to, though.

 

[Jovimaple]

Welcome to WMT! I'm sorry you're having issues with the corker, but it sounds like you're on the right track to figuring out what's going on.

I have the red Portuguese floor corker and haven't had any issues so far with #9 corks. I usually use the 3/4" size. Except my corker will not work with the tall 375 ml Bellissima bottles - yes, that's noted on the corker literature and yes, I tried it anyway on a couple that I had, and yes, they were right - it doesn't work.

 

[wineview]

Welcome to WMT!

I looked at the bottle you mentioned, and it appears to be a typical Bordeaux style bottle.

When you put the bottle in the corker, look down through the jaws to ensure the bottle mouth is lined up with the hole. I've been using my corker for 30+ years and have noticed that some bottles seem to line up automatically, while others don't, so I always verify that the bottle is lined up prior to dropping the cork in between the jaws.

I use only #9 corks, a mixture of 1-1/2" and 1-3/4"m, insert them dry (I keep corks sealed in the bag), and have no problems.

My first thought was it could be wet corks if you spritz them. If you want to sanitize your corks let the fumes of sodium metabisulphate do the work for you. I mix the solution and fill a small bucket (1 gallon maybe) with about an inch of the solution. That’s 1/2 quart. Place a steamer strainer in the bucket so it sits above the solution. Place your corks in the steamer basket and cover the bucket while you are bottling your wine.

 

[wineview]

When I sight down the the closed iris, the bottle is definitely not centered and no amount of fiddling around will get it to remain centered during the process of inserting the cork. You'd think that it would be self-centering to a certain degree, once the cork begins to insert but such is not the case.

I have two different bags of #9 duo disc corks, freshly opened, from two different suppliers and whether wet or dry, I cannot get them in these bottles. The agglomerated #8s go in fine.

I have the blue Italian floor corker. When I slip the bottle in, it sort of snaps into place with a little nudge.

 

[David Violante]

Welcome to WMT! I’m curious about what MoreBeer has to say. Perhaps there is a collar you can temporarily slip in place on the smaller-neck bottles to help seat correctly in the corker. If it adds any height to the bottle you would have to adjust the depth gauge to ensure the corks seat properly.

 

[Rocky]

@Farmer Grey Have you tried inserting a #9 Agglomerated cork? I would give this a try to determine if the length of the cork is involved or if your issue has to do with the cork material, the bottle or the corker.

Also, could you explain what you mean by "Encore mold #2103 bottles seems to be a fairly standard one to my untrained eye but when placed in the corker it does have a fair amount of play when compared to, say, a fat bar top bottle." Are you saying the bottle moves once inserted onto the corker?

I looked at the 2103's on Encore's website and they seem a fairly standard punted Bordeaux bottle.

 

[Farmer Grey]

Haven't heard back from Morebeer.com but today I packed up my bottles and my corks and my corker and drove two hours to the nearest brew supply place and did some troubleshooting and brainstorming. Long story short, the root of the problem has been identified: the head of my Ferrari floor corker is welded crooked onto the square tubular uprights of the frame. The cork is driven into the bottle at an angle and the top of the bottle is not pressed level up into the "cup" that is supposed to hold the mouth of the bottle in position under the iris. Got some agglomerated #9s that don't crumble as badly during insertion, just to get me by - I have to get a few cases of wine bottled ASAP - but I am pretty bummed. When I bought this floor corker I thought I was buying the best of its type and at the time I invested in a replacement set of brass jaws as well as a crown cap attachment for it.

The $80 Portugese floor corker the brew supply place is selling handled all my corks and bottles with ease. I did not purchase one today, as I am still determined to make my defective Ferrari work. It will cost me more than $80 to have the head cut and welded back on plumb but - quality control problem aside - it has other features that still make it my preference.

 

[Farmer Grey]

 

[Farmer Grey]

 

[wineview]

The corker looks crooked. Try putting a level on it.