kit vs juice

[markg]

OK, why buy a kit when you can get fresh juice OR the other way around. Am I safe in assuming that you have more control to add or change ingredients with juice? Or let me ask another way. For those who buy mostly fresh juice... why? My reason for asking is now that the season for fresh juice is here, and I'm not looking for a blend, is there any reason to buy a kit now? NOTE; I plan on buying the Rosso Fortisimo from George because it is blended and comes "as a kit", and sounds really good (any feedback?), but I also wanted to make a white zinfandel for my wife & daughter. Nothing crazy or wild but do I go kit or juice?

 

[vcasey]

Lots of pros for both kits & fresh juice. With fresh juice or grapes you have the chance to be creative but you also have to make all the corrections yourself. With kits all that is done for you plus you get a warranty so all you have to do is follow the instructions. You also have the opportunity to make wines from regions you normally would not like Italy as you mentioned. For many who do not have access to fresh juice or grapes, kits are a great alternative.
VC

 

[Wade E]

Fresh juices as with grapes vary from very good to poor in my opinion just like their are very good years to buy a certain commercial wine and other years its not so good. Kits in my opinion are pretty well controlled from this, how, I dont know but thats my thinking on this. I am not an advocate for either. I tried the Pinot Gris form Lodi Gold and was not impressed with it at all!

 

[Tom]

Depending on where you live you can only get fresh grape juice once or twice a year. Kits you can get any time of the year. Kits come in selections you can not get in fresh juice. Kits also take the guess work out.


Juice is much cheaper than kits. You can also tweak the wine to your taste and profile. I am able to get Calicornia, Italian and Chilean juice. So, I can be fermenting all year. In the summer I do all kinds of fresh fruit wine. In between I use 100% juice found @ Sams and Costco. (you don't wanna know the ammount of wine a year I make)

 

[ibglowin]

It better be under 200 gal a year or the ATF will be knocking on your door!

 

[Tom]

Of course it is

 

[smurfe]

Points to ponder. Are you an experienced winemaker or a beginner? If you are experienced, try the fresh juice. You need to be able to test the acidity and adjust. Create an oaking profile, choose the right yeast, understand and preform malolactic fermentation if required. If you are on the novice side buy a kit. Follow the instructions and enjoy. BTW, the Cellar Craft Rosso Fortissimo is a fantastic kit if you give it the proper age to mature.

 

[Big Ike]

I'm a novice, but I'm making the leap so that I can play with some of the other variables myself and also because it will be available.

I've made 6 kits in the last six months and started altering the kits with the third effort (changing yeasts and oak).

In the future, I really see myself doing both because of availability (year round for kits) and the challenge of working with a clean slate.

To Smurfe's point above, I think I've got a good handle on yeast, not on acids. I've also read a lot about malolactic fermentation, but I'm not certain that I can wield it as it should be and that's kind of the fun of it for me (I'll be making lots of three gallon batches with the fresh juice trying create my own little prize). That's only 36 gallons Mike, I've got 164 left for this year.

With a few tweaks, I've really seen an improvement in the quality of the final product from kits, so I see these as a great platform from which to continue to develop.

I find this little hobby a hoot because there is so much to learn and so much to enjoy too. I've always found that people in the adult beverage industry have a tendency to generally be very happy, approachable and generous with their advice and products.

All of this is gee whiz more than anything else I guess.

 

[Wade E]

Dont be afraid to play around with post fermentation tweaking with Tannin additions also. Check out this link, we did a class on this early this year and the changes this little tweak made to a finished wine were very dramatic and instant.
http://www.scottlab.com/products/fermentation/tannins.asp

 

[Big Ike]

Wade,

Thanks for the recommendation and link. Reading about the different tannin options at Scott Labs it appears that they add their product during primary fermentation. Did your class include recommended amounts/ratios for post fermentation?

I'll plan on adding this to the mix!

Thanks again,
Ike

 

[Wade E]

Tan'cor and Tan'cor Grand Cru, and<strong ="style3"> Quertanin [/b]are the ones I really meant for you to look at for Reds as those are Post fermentation tannins. As far as how much to add there is a PDf on the link which desribes how to do it which is what we folowed and then added a small amount of that to a glass of wine making note of how much we added to a specified amount of wine and tasted, then added some more and tasted and so on. We did this with a variation of wines and each was was a different amount needed. There is a point in whichthere is too much so start with a small sample like we did and adjust that and then multiply how much you added by how much wine you are going to add the tannin to. It made a huge difference and turned an OK wine into a very good wine.

 

[Big Ike]

Wade,

Thanks again. I really do appreciate the help and I look forward to advising all of what transpires.

I've already added the Tan Cor and Tan Cor Grand Cru to my basket, but it doesn't appear that George carries the Quertanin.

Based on your comments and the spec sheets, I've got a cab that I think will probably benefit from the Tan Cor Grand Cru and the Quertanin.

Thanks again,
Ike

 

[ibglowin]

Better living through Chemistry!

Gotta love it.

 

[ibglowin]

That's only 36 gallons Mike, I've got 164 left for this year.

You better get in gear or I am going to catch you by the end of September!

 

[Big Ike]

Mike,

I'm picking up the pace in the next two weekends. 10 gal of Chardonnay, 5 cab, 5 merlot, 5 zin and 5 pinot!

We'll have to meet in Santa Fe and exchange wines next year!

Ike

 

[Milwood]

I started out with kits and then I moved on to doing concentrates and fruit wines and now I am ordering grapes and fresh juices from California. IMHO you can make a very good white from kits but for a red you need to go with grapes or a kit that has grape skins. There is more adjustment with grapes and juices but that is also part of the fun. I am in a winemakers club that has been around for over 20 years and the wines made from the same grapes and juices are worlds apart. As a fellow winemaker I say try it all and see what works for you. I will continue to make wine from kits because I enjoy all types of wines. Making wine from some of the more "raw" materials can only make you a better winemaker. Cheers.

 

[Wade E]

Scott labs also makes tannins for whites but I havent tried any of that yet.

 

[ibglowin]

Deal!

Mike,

I'm picking up the pace in the next two weekends. 10 gal of Chardonnay, 5 cab, 5 merlot, 5 zin and 5 pinot!

We'll have to meet in Santa Fe and exchange wines next year!

Ike