Other Kit wine taste?

[sgift]

First is there such a thing as kit wine taste? If so how would you describe it? How do you overcome it and express the varietal flavors? My first guess is stop using sorbets for dry reds.....? I am waiting for the last nine months of big reds to age but they do seem to taste similar.

 

[jsiddall]

I honestly can't tell you if there is an official definition of kit taste. My experience is that the first 3 top of the line red kits I did at an FoP had a strong bananaish aroma/flavor that so far, 18 months in, has made them undrinkable. They are improving so I am trying to be patient.

Since then I have made a number of others and while none seem to have that banana thing they all have a sort of characteristic musty taste that seems to mask the normal varietal flavors and enables me to pick all of them out in a blind tasting with commercial wines.

For most of the kits I made I did not add sorbate (or sorbet for that matter!) but I am not convinced that really had anything to do with it. For example, I made a La Bodega port that has sorbate and it is quite decent after about a year.

Others may have different experience.

 

[cmason1957]

Some people swear there is a kit wine taste, some swear there is not. I personally think there might be, BUT it isn't just kit wines, it is a young wine taste. Many people who make kits choose to start drinking them to soon (and I am guilty of this as well) 6 months to a year after bottling and for big reds you can easily double that. I also bulk age my wines for a minimum of 8 months, add extra oak (if called for) and/or tannins.

Oh and you can keep your sorbets out of wine, it causes many problems. :: Now sorbate, that stuff comes with every kit. I don't think it causes kit taste, btw but I never put it in my dry red wines, there is no need for it. I believe that kit manufacturers include it for those folks who are hydrometer reading impaired.

And if this is your first kit, I toss all those out and say buy an inexpensive Mist type kit, follow those directions as closely as you can. You need to understand the basics and techniques before you deviate from them.

 

[ColemanM]

I'd have to say that for me, kit taste is a strawberry raspberry chemical taste. I have a WE Eclipse Lodi 11 ranch cab that, after 26 months, is still unimpressive, uncharacteristic and thin. Even after 8 weeks in a Vadai barrel. It seems to be a common smell and taste in my kit wines that I don't get with my frozen grape wines. Cheaper ones like the mezza Luna red are more pronounced though. I started adding pressed grape skins to my kits and it helps quite a bit. I have an eclipse old vine Zin in the barrel now that tastes nearly commercial and looks and smells amazing!!

 

[GaDawg]

I have never experienced kit taste. I guess some do and some don't .

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

a lot also depends on how much of a taste pallet you have, some people will taste a lot of things in their wine that I get no hint of. There is a taste difference to me between kit wines and fresh grape wines I have made, but its nothing I could describe to anyone, just something different.

 

[ou8amaus]

I have noticed some KT in almost every kit I have ever made. The strange thing is that I cannot isolate what it is i am smelling, but I can instantly recognize it. The cheaper the kit (usually the less the juice), the most KT I notice. High end kits have much less KT. Ageing them, putting in some barrel time, adding skins/actual grapes will reduces the KT. Juice buckets have less KT than kits. This is all my opinion and as previous people have mentioned some folk swear they cannot smell it... But I have come to these personal conclusions after making my first batch last year using fresh grapes (and with only mediocre grapes!) and for the first time that odd smell is completely absent (and it is still young). (Usual disclaimer about how others opinions will differ and how I in no way wish to put down kits as I still enjoy making kits, albeit less often, but I no longer have dreams of being able to make one without KT.)

 

[heatherd]

I can taste KT in a few of my batches and it is something I can recognize but not describe. What works for me is to omit sorbate and fining agents.
Heather

 

[Brian55]

KT definitely exists. Exactly what it is and the cause is still up for debate. It definitely gets less and less noticeable with time and is less noticeable overall in the better kits. A few of the kits we've made have lost the KT by 18 to 24 months. The biggest difference I find in tastings with both kits and commercials is that the kits lack nose, but often times have better overall flavor than many wines in the under $20 range.

 

[vernsgal]

I'm not sure if it's a KT taste so much as a mouthfeel to me.It seems to leave a kinda thick mouth feel. I notice it if I've had a store bought one night a and a KT the next.It definitely is more noticeable the younger or cheaper the kit

 

[bkisel]

I've got close to 20 kits under my belt and have yet to find or sense a common taste across the different kits. Does "kit taste" vary from kit to kit? Different taste yet still KT, is that possible?

 

[sgift]

I'd have to say that for me, kit taste is a strawberry raspberry chemical taste. I have a WE Eclipse Lodi 11 ranch cab that, after 26 months, is still unimpressive, uncharacteristic and thin. Even after 8 weeks in a Vadai barrel. It seems to be a common smell and taste in my kit wines that I don't get with my frozen grape wines. Cheaper ones like the mezza Luna red are more pronounced though. I started adding pressed grape skins to my kits and it helps quite a bit. I have an eclipse old vine Zin in the barrel now that tastes nearly commercial and looks and smells amazing!!View attachment 21945

I have to agree. I wanted to hear other opinions but your description is pretty good. For me it's reminiscent of bazooka bubble gum but I think the components of that taste are 'strawberry raspberry chemical tast'. Eliminating sorbet has reduced it but none of my big reds are more then eight months.
I also think skins, raisins and more dense juice helps, and now experimenting with 24L American oak barrel.

 

[sgift]

I'd have to say that for me, kit taste is a strawberry raspberry chemical taste. I have a WE Eclipse Lodi 11 ranch cab that, after 26 months, is still unimpressive, uncharacteristic and thin. Even after 8 weeks in a Vadai barrel. It seems to be a common smell and taste in my kit wines that I don't get with my frozen grape wines. Cheaper ones like the mezza Luna red are more pronounced though. I started adding pressed grape skins to my kits and it helps quite a bit. I have an eclipse old vine Zin in the barrel now that tastes nearly commercial and looks and smells amazing!!View attachment 21945

I have to agree. I wanted to hear other opinions but your description is pretty good. For me it's reminiscent of bazooka bubble gum but I think the components of that taste are 'strawberry raspberry chemical tast'. Eliminating sorbet has reduced it but none of my big reds are more then eight months.
I also think skins, raisins and more dense juice helps, and now experimenting with 24L American oak barrel. Thx

 

[sgift]

I'd have to say that for me, kit taste is a strawberry raspberry chemical taste. I have a WE Eclipse Lodi 11 ranch cab that, after 26 months, is still unimpressive, uncharacteristic and thin. Even after 8 weeks in a Vadai barrel. It seems to be a common smell and taste in my kit wines that I don't get with my frozen grape wines. Cheaper ones like the mezza Luna red are more pronounced though. I started adding pressed grape skins to my kits and it helps quite a bit. I have an eclipse old vine Zin in the barrel now that tastes nearly commercial and looks and smells amazing!!View attachment 21945

I have to agree. I wanted to hear other opinions but your description is pretty good. For me it's reminiscent of bazooka bubble gum but I think the components of that taste are 'strawberry raspberry chemical tast'. Eliminating sorbet has reduced it but none of my big reds are more then eight months.
I also think skins, raisins and more dense juice helps, and now experimenting with 24L American oak barrel. Thx

 

[sgift]

I have to agree. I wanted to hear other opinions but your description is pretty good. For me it's reminiscent of bazooka bubble gum but I think the components of that taste are 'strawberry raspberry chemical tast'. Eliminating sorbet has reduced it but none of my big reds are more then eight months.
I also think skins, raisins and more dense juice helps, and now experimenting with 24L American oak barrel. Thx

 

[vabeachbear]

I'm not sure if it's a KT taste so much as a mouthfeel to me.It seems to leave a kinda thick mouth feel. I notice it if I've had a store bought one night a and a KT the next.It definitely is more noticeable the younger or cheaper the kit

Try filtering. I started about 2 or 3 kits ago, used a 1 micron filter. Definitely reduces the "thickness" thing.

 

[Tetrarch]

I have noticed some KT in almost every kit I have ever made. The strange thing is that I cannot isolate what it is i am smelling, but I can instantly recognize it. The cheaper the kit (usually the less the juice), the most KT I notice. High end kits have much less KT. Ageing them, putting in some barrel time, adding skins/actual grapes will reduces the KT. Juice buckets have less KT than kits. This is all my opinion and as previous people have mentioned some folk swear they cannot smell it... But I have come to these personal conclusions after making my first batch last year using fresh grapes (and with only mediocre grapes!) and for the first time that odd smell is completely absent (and it is still young). (Usual disclaimer about how others opinions will differ and how I in no way wish to put down kits as I still enjoy making kits, albeit less often, but I no longer have dreams of being able to make one without KT.)

Could the taste/aroma be as aresult of using invert sugar in kits (e.g. CC Rosso F)? I note that some wine conditioners consist of invert sugar preserved with sorbate (Item 11):
https://winemakermag.com/459-make-your-kit-wine-shine

 

[SouthernChemist]

Could the taste/aroma be as aresult of using invert sugar in kits (e.g. CC Rosso F)? I note that some wine conditioners consist of invert sugar preserved with sorbate (Item 11):
https://winemakermag.com/459-make-your-kit-wine-shine

Invert sugar simply consists of the same sugars (glucose, fructose) that are already present in grapes. A complete fermentation will consume just about all the sugars that invert sugar/syrup provides. Some people, however, are sensitive to the taste of potassium sorbate if it is present in high enough concentrations.

 

[vernsgal]

I don't sweeten my wines so I know that that's not the cause. I have done wines from pails and have to say that I don't find that same mouthfeel/taste. I do admit that 90% of my wine drinking is from kits so it's not a bad thing, IMO, but it is something noticeable

 

[Tetrarch]

I don't sweeten my wines so I know that that's not the cause. I have done wines from pails and have to say that I don't find that same mouthfeel/taste. I do admit that 90% of my wine drinking is from kits so it's not a bad thing, IMO, but it is something noticeable

Nor do I, I only make dry red wines ones that do not include F-Packs.
Sadler's Reserve kits do not include invert sugars, added sugars, preservatives or colours and they seem to have much less KT.