Kits vs Grapes - Your Thoughts?

[botigol]

In regards to the 'medal count' discussion, wouldn't we need to know the proportion of entries of each type in order to decide whether kit wines were disproportionately represented in the medals? On this subject; I have no data on which to base this, just my guess; I bet that there is a larger number of kit wines entered into a lot of the amateur competitions.

 

[GaDawg]

Seth, IMHO we have moved way beyond the point that this is a worthwhile discussion.

 

[seth8530]

In regards to the 'medal count' discussion, wouldn't we need to know the proportion of entries of each type in order to decide whether kit wines were disproportionately represented in the medals? On this subject; I have no data on which to base this, just my guess; I bet that there is a larger number of kit wines entered into a lot of the amateur competitions.

Yes, that is also important to consider. I would not be surprised if their are more kit entrees, but the question to find out would be just how many more.

 

[Rocky]

Wow Rocky !!! Your opinion on #6 points a b c almost contradicts when you wrote "it almost always is those who make wine from grapes criticizing those who do not and not the other way around."
Points 1 thru 5 are very good and I could not argue.

I was opining on just why they find it, in MOST cases, so necessary to do so. If you took it as attacking them rather than trying to understand why and suggesting some reasons that I think are plausible, I regret your misunderstanding. In any case, I did say "almost always" so I am covered.

 

[Rocky]

Now who is saying offensive things?

I was very clear in my post that I don't thing either way is superior or inferior bit that they are different processes and therefor should not be competing against each other.

What, exactly, is offensive and to whom is it offensive?

Secondly, why are people so hung up on the "process" rather than the result?

This reminds me of an incident from many years ago when I lived in Dayton and we had a neighborhood tennis tournament. The person that won had a very "ugly game" (he did not hold his racquet correctly, did not follow through, wore the wrong shoes, etc.) but he beat all the "club" players with their designer outfits, great racquet preparation, stroke and follow through, etc. After the tournament was over, someone said, "Tony should not have won, his game is terrible. How could they give the trophy to him." I said, "We gave the trophy to him because he won the majority of sets in his matches by taking at least 6 games by at least a margin of 2. That was the requirement to win." How he got the ball back over the net, how ungainly was his serve, his forehand, his backhand, etc. did not matter. There were no points for style, just the result.

 

[ibglowin]

You can download the entire 2014 Winemaker Mag Amateur Wine Contest results from their website. Over 3000 entries. They do not separate Kits from fresh grapes anywhere in the results. Kits go head to head. Sometimes the fresh grapes win, sometimes the Kits win. I guess they only care about the finished product and keeping it open to as many contestants as they can garner since they charge $25 a entry. Lots of kits in the medal count. I would guess to say that this competition has more kits than any other amateur competition. If anyone knows of any competition where Kits are in a whole different category on their own please point it out.

 

[codeman]

Can't we all just get along?

 

[JohnT]

If I may, Let me just re-emphasize a point I made earlier..

In most competitions, Wines are judged on their own accord. Most competitions can have several gold, silver, and bronze medals in any given category. The fact that there are many good wines or many bad wines entered does not really influence any chance at getting a medal. Medals are awarded as a result of points given and not how good or bad other wines happen to be.

With this in mind, having a separate category should not matter. The wine will still be awarded the same points and will still have the same shot at winning a medal.

Rocky, I hear what you are saying. I used to be one of those that wore the "only make from whole grapes" badge. Several years ago, I saw the error of my ways and now believe in the quality of kit wines.

I continue to make from whole fresh grapes mostly because of the following reasons. I do not discount the possibility that I will switch to kits when I get older though....

1) I find it cheaper since I already own the equipment.
2) I have a nice size labor force (Family/Friends) willing to take part in crush
3) I do no know of any kit that will produce 500 liters of wine
4) Yes, tradition plays a part. The grape crush is a annual party the most look forward to. I actually have friends and family member flying in for the event.

 

[Rocky]

John, you have an ideal situation for a person who enjoys the tradition of making wine from grapes. When we made wine from grapes at home it was a weekend event. Grandfather, Father, Uncles, Cousins all pitched in to help and we made a large volume of wine, usually between 2 and 5 barrels, depending on existing inventory, the quality of the grapes, money available, etc. (Yes, 5 barrels is over the 200 gallon limit, but I would guess that the statute of limitations has expired on this.) Grandma, Mom and Aunts did the cooking and it was very memorable. We would go through up to 100 boxes of grapes in some years. I went to school with purple hands for weeks.

The largest batch I make now is a triple or a quadruple is I am making my Zinfandel-Muscat blend, as I am doing now. I guess I am making between 100 and 150 gallons a year or almost the equivalent of 2 or 3 barrels. I am making more of a variety of wines and that I another thing I like about kits.

I think I may have unintentionally offended some by my comments but that was not my intent. More than anything, I believe people should do what they feel comfortable doing and no one should criticize their choice. All situations are different. Yours is ideal for making wine from grapes and/or kits. The best of both worlds.

 

[jensmith]

Sooo... Wines are judged against a score sheet, not each other. In that case how the wine compares to other wines does not come onto play. Correct? Each bottle gets its own score. Not a better or worse then some other bottle.





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[ibglowin]

Correct. There is no predetermined limit to the number of Gold, Silver or Bronze Medals. If your wine attains the minimum score for that medal you win irregardless of how many others have already achieved that score.

Sooo... Wines are judged against a score sheet, not each other. In that case how the wine compares to other wines does not come onto play. Correct? Each bottle gets its own score. Not a better or worse then some other bottle.





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[jensmith]

Ok. Thanks.
In that case I do not care how or from what some other wine in the compition is made. My own personal score is all that maters.



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[JohnT]

ok. Thanks.
In that case i do not care how or from what some other wine in the compition is made. My own personal score is all that maters.



Sent from my ipod touch using wine making

exactly!!!!!!

 

[wineh]

You can download the entire 2014 Winemaker Mag Amateur Wine Contest results from their website. Over 3000 entries. They do not separate Kits from fresh grapes anywhere in the results. Kits go head to head. Sometimes the fresh grapes win, sometimes the Kits win. I guess they only care about the finished product and keeping it open to as many contestants as they can garner since they charge $25 a entry. Lots of kits in the medal count. I would guess to say that this competition has more kits than any other amateur competition. If anyone knows of any competition where Kits are in a whole different category on their own please point it out.

The Winemaker mag contest also has "Best in show kit/concentrate" and "Best in show estate grown" to showcase the different strategies. The grand champion wine is usually (but not always) made from grapes. One year, a mead won.