Large Batches from Multiple Wine Kits

[dgarver]

It is not unusual for me to have 5 or 6 batches of wine in 6 gallon carboys in various stages of the wine making process. I would like to start making larger than 6 gallon batches of wine from kits, say 35 gallon batches. Does anyone have experience doing this? Are there modifications you would make to the standard kit procedure to process a 35 gallon batch? I would be interested in hearing your experiences.

 

[chitownwine]

I'm assuming you mean like combining the same of one kit into like a brute and fermenting together. If so I would assume you would just add a packet of yeast for each 6 gallon kit and should ferment fine. It's something I am also thinking of doing.

 

[salcoco]

it would seem that wanting that large a batch of wine, making wine from grapes would me more economical. Does your supply store sell grapes. Most that do also crush the grapes for you. Renting a press once wine is fermented is also possible.

If you still want to pursue batch kit wines, I would insure adequate yeast nutrient.

 

[dking193]

I would like to reenergize this thread if possible.

Background: I'm working on a vineyard but not producing for another couple years. Until then, buy grapes and/or kits to fill the void. My recent plans of large purchase of grapes for a big batch failed. I have these two empty 100L variable capacity stainless steel tanks looking at me everyday. They seem so lonely.

So I recently took advantage of the big sale at Label Peelers http://labelpeelers.com. And purchased 4 Eclipse Barolo Kits with Skins. Great deal by the way. They will arrive tomorrow.

The plan, which I'm looking for help on, is to really only use the juice and skins and pretty much completely not follow the directions.

First, I plan to use a big primary and pour all juice and required water called out to get to equivalent of 24gallons of must (6gal x 4 kits). Don't plan to use the Bentonite, unless someone gives me a good reason to do so. Nor do I plan to use the oak powder.

Most kits all have the same yeast but I plan to use ICVD254, did a test a year back on two kits using this instead of standard yeast on one kit and compared with other and really like the mouthfeel much better, though it did foam.

Between the four kits, I'll have about 4 gallons of skins in the kit and may just free float like a normal crush or I could use the provided mesh bags for a lighter squeeze and easier clean up. Thoughts on this, well any of this actually.

I plan to do a malolactic fermentation with Lalvin VP41. With the low potassium metabisulphite in kits, I assume this will not be a problem? Also plan to start it a day or two before primary ends and I rack off.

Secondary fermentation will be in my 100L VC tank. Rack when fermentation is done and then long term storage in VC Tank with french oak Infusion Spirals for about 6 weeks (2 spirals for 24 gallons). Probably rack once more than let it set until next fall with occasional inspecting and tasting.

Anyone ever done this? Have any advice? Left out some steps but you get the gest.

Oh and the very simple math for grapes vs Eclipse kit:
100 lbs of grapes for 6 gal of juice after pressing $1.25 lb = $125
24 gallons of must/juice = 400 lbs of grapes or $500
Eclipse kit with Skins reg price is: $180 on sale for $117
4 kits = $468 + shipping of $50 so ~$518 or so.

So not much diff in costs of making wine from kits w/skins (when discounted) and grapes.

Looking for advice on any of this

 

[the_rayway]

I think this looks pretty good (super jealous of 4 kits at once!!!). However, I believe there has been mention about not doing MLF on kit wines???

Hopefully someone will be able to chime in on that.

 

[sour_grapes]

Yes, my understanding is the same as Raelene's: MLF on kit wines is not a good idea.

Tim Vandergrift says:

Best case scenario, it won't work and you waste your money.

Worst case? Ruined wine with no acid and some spectacularly funny tastes.

Basically, they do not need their acidity reduced--it's in perfect balance for the style, so malolactic would automatically alter it in an undesirable fashion.

 

[dking193]

I will test the TA and PH and see if it is a candidate, but I see your point. I hope others will chime in and give me some suggestions.

 

[cpfan]

I will test the TA and PH and see if it is a candidate, but I see your point. I hope others will chime in and give me some suggestions.

I have one suggestion: Don't do MLF on a kit (or group of kits).
[Sorry couldn't resist.]

I don't see anything else wrong with your plan. I would want to use the bentonite but that much might become an issue on the first racking (although I know nothing about big tanks).

I like to free float the grape skins, and have some stainless steel strainers that I use to remove them from the primary before racking. They wouldn't work in your tanks though.

Good luck, Steve

 

[Enologo]

I would like to reenergize this thread if possible.

Background: I'm working on a vineyard but not producing for another couple years. Until then, buy grapes and/or kits to fill the void. My recent plans of large purchase of grapes for a big batch failed. I have these two empty 100L variable capacity stainless steel tanks looking at me everyday. They seem so lonely.

So I recently took advantage of the big sale at Label Peelers http://labelpeelers.com. And purchased 4 Eclipse Barolo Kits with Skins. Great deal by the way. They will arrive tomorrow.

The plan, which I'm looking for help on, is to really only use the juice and skins and pretty much completely not follow the directions.

First, I plan to use a big primary and pour all juice and required water called out to get to equivalent of 24gallons of must (6gal x 4 kits). Don't plan to use the Bentonite, unless someone gives me a good reason to do so. Nor do I plan to use the oak powder.

Most kits all have the same yeast but I plan to use ICVD254, did a test a year back on two kits using this instead of standard yeast on one kit and compared with other and really like the mouthfeel much better, though it did foam.

Between the four kits, I'll have about 4 gallons of skins in the kit and may just free float like a normal crush or I could use the provided mesh bags for a lighter squeeze and easier clean up. Thoughts on this, well any of this actually.

I plan to do a malolactic fermentation with Lalvin VP41. With the low potassium metabisulphite in kits, I assume this will not be a problem? Also plan to start it a day or two before primary ends and I rack off.

Secondary fermentation will be in my 100L VC tank. Rack when fermentation is done and then long term storage in VC Tank with french oak Infusion Spirals for about 6 weeks (2 spirals for 24 gallons). Probably rack once more than let it set until next fall with occasional inspecting and tasting.

Anyone ever done this? Have any advice? Left out some steps but you get the gest.

Oh and the very simple math for kit vs Eclipse kit:
100 lbs of grapes for 6 gal of juice after pressing $1.25 lb = $125
24 gallons of must/juice = 400 lbs of grapes or $500
Eclipse kit with Skins reg price is: $180 on sale for $117
4 kits = $468 + shipping of $50 so ~$518 or so.

So not much diff in costs of making wine from kits w/skins (when discounted) and grapes.

Looking for advice on any of this

I've done 2 and 3 kits at time with good results. You just need to be sure the primary is large enough with enough head space. As for the directions I would still follow them for a kits to maintain the waranty, you can still tweak if you like.
I would still use the oak and bentonite in the primary since they have other benefits when used in the primary. The oak won't add much flavor but will help to stabilize and retain color you can taste and still add addditional oak later if you desire. The bentonite also has other benefits during primary though I don't recall off the top of my head someone else may want to chime in but I've made it a habit to always add the bentonite in the primary.
As for the yeast if you have one that you are familier with definately go for it.
The bags I have'nt used as yet but the clean up is a pain this is a judgement call.
MLF as others have already stated is ano for kits.
As far as the SS tank I usually rack to glass so I can monitor the lees. I like to rack every couple of weeks till there is no more sediment before I bulk age.
Again oak to taste.
I started doing the mutiples to make enough to last long enough to age. Lately I've moved more towards juice pails and grapes than kits.
My latest batch was 4 pails and a lug of grapes and I can't wait to see how this comes along.

 

[dking193]

Enologo

I've wanted to try the juice pails but haven't had the opportunity. I'm trying to get off the kits and as my vineyard starts producing I will. Please give us your recipe for the pails and grapes. I assume 1 lug of grapes in addition to the pails?

 

[Enologo]

I am still working through it myself though some others with more experience may chime in but your assumption is correct. First pails I made, just juice no additions. Next batch was from the Chilian juice, 4 pails and a lug of grapes though their lugs are only 18lbs. The last batch, California, 4 pails and a lug (36lbs.) of grapes and this time around added, nutrient,enegizer,pectic enzyme and this was the fastest ferment I've had so far. It's all ageing in different stages at this point so the jury is still out. I'm still trying to perfect my technique. I've read where some add a lug per pail. It's all about trial and error but what fun.

 

[Leo001]

I have don a multi-kit batch (5 kits) I simply followed the kit instructions and multiplied everything by the amount of the kits used (5) I used a large stainless steel variable capacity fermenter, at racking time I went to demijohns and carboys. The wine turned out great. I plan on doing the same thing again for a summer supply of Sauivignon Blanc!
I wish there was the availability of a single bulk kit (30 gallons or so) but I understand these are only available to licensed wineries.