leftover wine after racking

[purpletongue]

Hello,

After doing my second racking from a 23L to a 20L. I was left with about 1 liter extra. Any suggestions on what to do with this wine? It's not terrible drinking but also not great. Can I practice bottling and bottle it and use it for cooking? Should I let 02 mix with it to let acetic acid production take hold and make vinegar?

Cheers,

 

[sour_grapes]

I'd bottle 3/4 of it and drink the rest, myself.

 

[purpletongue]

I'd bottle 3/4 of it and drink the rest, myself.

Sounds good. That's what I'll do.

Also, when I do my final racking I only have 23L carboys to go into and a really small one that looks like maybe 15L. I can get a 18.9L carboy used for $20 to do my final rack or I could get a $30 can of inert gas to use with the 23L. Any suggestions?

 

[sour_grapes]

You can rack into the 23 L, then clean the 20 L, and rack back to that.

If you need more wine to top up that 20L, you can open the bottle and top up, or you could add a little from a similar commercial wine.

 

[purpletongue]

You can rack into the 23 L, then clean the 20 L, and rack back to that.

If you need more wine to top up that 20L, you can open the bottle and top up, or you could add a little from a similar commercial wine.

Oh cool. I didn't know you can rack back and forth like that. I thought it'd introduce unwanted 02. That being said if you're careful about not splashing I guess it's negligible?

OK, I'll bottle that wine immediately as currently it's in a 1 gallon jug with lots of air sitting on top. And if I need it I'll top up with that. Maybe I'll taste first as it has been exposed in that 1 gallon overnight.

 

[purpletongue]

I'd bottle 3/4 of it and drink the rest, myself.

So I did that. Wasted a cork bottling for the first time. Takes a bit of finesse and confidence. Didn't want to break the neck of the bottle. But you know, I'm drinking the left over after bottling a 750, and it's not all that bad at all. I got about 500ml+ in a mason jar and it actually already looks about as clear as commercial wine. It has a bit of a funky nose. But it's not too acidic (I added malolactic to this kit b/c I had it and didn't do research before about not using it with kits, however thx to the forum here I didn't add sorbate which doesn't react well with it), it's quite round (I do think the malolactic kicked in, I dunno how much), but with good tart astringency. Nice berry flavors coming through. For extra wine coming off the 2nd rack I'm impressed. I think the nose is what needs to develop more. Maybe I'm smelling some off yeast funk that needs to break down. But I've always liked a bit of funk, like in those small batch Pinot Noir's.

 

[winemaker81]

It doesn't make sense to use a 23 L carboy for a 23 L kit, as you lose volume to sediment with each racking -- you WILL have head space. The instructions probably say to top up with water, which is a no-no. Once you've reconstituted the juice/concentrate to it's proper level, adding more water changes the balance of the wine and dilutes it. @sour_grapes' advice is spot on.

When making kits I use 5 US gallon carboys and store excess in smaller bottles. I have a collection of bottles from 200 ml to 1.5 L (used to have 2 & 3 L bottles, mistakenly recycled them) along with a large collection of airlocks and stoppers to fit all bottles. I've had as many as 5 kits going at once --my wine area looked like a sea of airlocks!

Bottling the excess works, but using airlocks, or rubber stoppers if the wine is 100% stable, is a bit easier. Drinking any excess that doesn't fit in the containers is a requirement.

@purpletongue, I was surprise to see you mention a 20 L carboy. I had never heard of it -- 5 US gallons is ~19 liters. Then I considered that the carboys I have actually hold 5.25 US gallons .... which is ~20 liters ....

I learn something new each day!

 

[purpletongue]

It doesn't make sense to use a 23 L carboy for a 23 L kit, as you lose volume to sediment with each racking -- you WILL have head space. The instructions probably say to top up with water, which is a no-no. Once you've reconstituted the juice/concentrate to it's proper level, adding more water changes the balance of the wine and dilutes it. @sour_grapes' advice is spot on.

When making kits I use 5 US gallon carboys and store excess in smaller bottles. I have a collection of bottles from 200 ml to 1.5 L (used to have 2 & 3 L bottles, mistakenly recycled them) along with a large collection of airlocks and stoppers to fit all bottles. I've had as many as 5 kits going at once --my wine area looked like a sea of airlocks!

Bottling the excess works, but using airlocks, or rubber stoppers if the wine is 100% stable, is a bit easier. Drinking any excess that doesn't fit in the containers is a requirement.

@purpletongue, I was surprise to see you mention a 20 L carboy. I had never heard of it -- 5 US gallons is ~19 liters. Then I considered that the carboys I have actually hold 5.25 US gallons .... which is ~20 liters ....

I learn something new each day!

What's interesting is I talked to a guy at a wine supply and he was saying how topping up with water is fine and that most kits are formulated this way and that the dilution amount won't make any detectable difference. My instinct is to disagree with all the efforts to avoid adding water but I must say he was surrounded by maybe 100 or so carboys in various stages so he's not new to the art.

I think I'll use a 23L for my next batch going from my primary into the first rack. I think I won't top up with water for that rack and depend on it producing enough C02 to fill that headspace. On the second rack I'll move it into the 20L and keep it there for any subsequent rackings. Thoughts?

Ya my 20L was bought used. It had an ancient cork in it. It has a huge mouth, found that a #12 fits it. Perhaps it's from Europe? The 19L that I've seen actually say 18.9, which like you say is 5 US gallons.

 

[sour_grapes]

My instinct is to disagree with all the efforts to avoid adding water but I must say he was surrounded by maybe 100 or so carboys in various stages so he's not new to the art.

Is there one too many (or one too few) negations in the underlined part?

I personally avoid adding water, and think it best to top with a like wine. At the same time, I really don't I would be able to detect the difference. You can try the experiment yourself: Get two glasses of, say, a commercial wine. Pour them to the same level. Have a friend or spouse add a couple tablespoons of water to one, and a couple tablespoons of wine to the other. (Best to work out the approximate fraction correctly, but I think that is what it comes out to.) See if you can tell which is which.

 

[purpletongue]

Is there one too many (or one too few) negations in the underlined part?

I personally avoid adding water, and think it best to top with a like wine. At the same time, I really don't I would be able to detect the difference. You can try the experiment yourself: Get two glasses of, say, a commercial wine. Pour them to the same level. Have a friend or spouse add a couple tablespoons of water to one, and a couple tablespoons of wine to the other. (Best to work out the approximate fraction correctly, but I think that is what it comes out to.) See if you can tell which is which.

Haha, touche. Ya that's not worded very well.

Maybe I'll try that experiment. Let's do quick math for my case. After primary I added 1 L to top up. At 23L that works out to 4.35%. A quick google gives me 150ml for a serving so that'd be 6.5ml of water. Which is closer to a teaspoon (5.91939 ml). So to get to 6.66ml (what a number), you'd need 1 and 1/8th teaspoon of water to the glass of wine. Ya likely hard to detect I'd say. Still agree I don't like the "idea" of adding water. But looking at the math if it's only 1L it probably doesn't matter much.

 

[purpletongue]

Is there one too many (or one too few) negations in the underlined part?

I personally avoid adding water, and think it best to top with a like wine. At the same time, I really don't I would be able to detect the difference. You can try the experiment yourself: Get two glasses of, say, a commercial wine. Pour them to the same level. Have a friend or spouse add a couple tablespoons of water to one, and a couple tablespoons of wine to the other. (Best to work out the approximate fraction correctly, but I think that is what it comes out to.) See if you can tell which is which.

You wouldn't need to add more wine to the undiluted glass though. It will stay the same concentration if you add more wine. However, that'd be the most accurate recreation of the two different racking operations.

 

[winemaker81]

I think I'll use a 23L for my next batch going from my primary into the first rack. I think I won't top up with water for that rack and depend on it producing enough C02 to fill that headspace. On the second rack I'll move it into the 20L and keep it there for any subsequent rackings. Thoughts?

If your first racking is before fermentation is complete, you're right -- the continued fermentation will produce enough CO2 to protect the wine for a period of time.

I generally reconstitute kits to 5.5 US gallons, and in the first racking I fill a gallon jug 3/4 full and put the remainder in a 5 gallon carboy. If I get any foaming, which is rare, the foam won't go up in to the airlock. Once fermentation is complete I fill a 5 gallon carboy and the remainder goes in smaller container(s).

There is a thread on tweaking kits -- it's a LONG one and there's a lot of chaff, but a lot of wisdom there. It's worth skimming.

Regarding water, you'll find few on this forum who advocate topping with water. I'm a purist and topping with water goes against my learnings.

However, realistically speaking, adding 5% water should not make a difference that is noticeable except possibly in side-by-side tastings. And at the end of the day, the only person whose opinion of your wine matters is YOU!

Please post the results of your taste test.

 

[purpletongue]

If your first racking is before fermentation is complete, you're right -- the continued fermentation will produce enough CO2 to protect the wine for a period of time.

I generally reconstitute kits to 5.5 US gallons, and in the first racking I fill a gallon jug 3/4 full and put the remainder in a 5 gallon carboy. If I get any foaming, which is rare, the foam won't go up in to the airlock. Once fermentation is complete I fill a 5 gallon carboy and the remainder goes in smaller container(s).

There is a thread on tweaking kits -- it's a LONG one and there's a lot of chaff, but a lot of wisdom there. It's worth skimming.

Regarding water, you'll find few on this forum who advocate topping with water. I'm a purist and topping with water goes against my learnings.

However, realistically speaking, adding 5% water should not make a difference that is noticeable except possibly in side-by-side tastings. And at the end of the day, the only person whose opinion of your wine matters is YOU!

Please post the results of your taste test.

I'll give that thread another skim. I did look it over a bit earlier. Seems to be some neat tips.

So I tried the taste test. Commercial Chilean Cab / Merlot blend - very yummy. Couldn't tell any discernible difference. The amount of water looks a bit more than if it was wet and allowed to collect at the bottom. Perhaps the nose was a tad stronger in the undiluted wine. But taste and look I couldn't tell. The nose thing might just be my imagination also.

 

[sour_grapes]

You wouldn't need to add more wine to the undiluted glass though. It will stay the same concentration if you add more wine. However, that'd be the most accurate recreation of the two different racking operations.

Oh, the reason I suggested adding the wine was so that you couldn't tell which glass was which, just by looking at it. Maybe it is a small enough difference that you couldn't tell, but I was just suggesting a way to make the test a better "blind" test.

 

[purpletongue]

Oh, the reason I suggested adding the wine was so that you couldn't tell which glass was which, just by looking at it. Maybe it is a small enough difference that you couldn't tell, but I was just suggesting a way to make the test a better "blind" test.

So when they were filled. One with 1, and 1/8th teaspoon of water, they were indistinguishable visually. With that dilution of 1L to 23L, 4~% at the glass level, I could not discern between the two.

 

[Swedeman]

Adding water? It's kind of like starting with 24 liter instead of 23 liter to make sure you won't need to top up at the first racking. Would you then add more water on the coming rackings? Maybe you can't tell which is which at each racking but it adds up...

I wouldn't add extra water at any point.

 

[purpletongue]

Adding water? It's kind of like starting with 24 liter instead of 23 liter to make sure you won't need to top up at the first racking. Would you then add more water on the coming rackings? Maybe you can't tell which is which at each racking but it adds up...

I wouldn't add extra water at any point.

Well I'm new to this. And I can see adding water is a controversial subject. I understand that personal feeling as a sort of "purist" leaning. I personally would add water before I added commercial wine. If I had previous homemade vintages I would add probably add wine. Also, I rack down after the first racking. So I don't anticipate the need to add any more than the 1L I added after primary. But continually having to rack down is somewhat of a pain of owning various sized containers.

Also, I would add as I've commented in other posts that I spoke to a man working at a wine supply / winery and he said there's no issue adding water and most kits are designed with this in mind. I was a bit surprised but he was surrounded by almost 100 carboys in various stages so I would take his word to mean something. Again, just something to consider.

 

[sour_grapes]

Also, I would add as I've commented in other posts that I spoke to a man working at a wine supply / winery and he said there's no issue adding water and most kits are designed with this in mind. I was a bit surprised but he was surrounded by almost 100 carboys in various stages so I would take his word to mean something.

Yes, but what I would take it to mean is: "I have 100 customers to juggle, so I am going to say whatever makes my job easiest." I think that the statement "most kits are designed with this in mind" is the tell.

But perhaps I am cynical.

 

[bstnh1]

Not that long ago (2013) kit instructions said to top up with water after stabilizing.

 

[purpletongue]

Yes, but what I would take it to mean is: "I have 100 customers to juggle, so I am going to say whatever makes my job easiest." I think that the statement "most kits are designed with this in mind" is the tell.

But perhaps I am cynical.

Well he may not even be the owner. Perhaps he was just a new employee. He did go on to explain how they rack etc... I got the impression they do not add wine but it wasn't clear. He said the amount of dilution is negligible if you top up with water. Tbh, I'm not sure why he'd recommend water over wine. He seemed pretty matter a fact about it. I was interested in buying a 19L from him so it would of been in his financial interest to recommend not adding wine and racking down. I'd be interested to know and confirm if some kits do in fact formulate the concentration of juice with racking and topping up with water in mind. He said the kits they sell are and most others would be. I feel like I've opened a can of worms. Hehe.

Now that I remember, I did ask another wine guy much earlier from a winery I got my juice from about this issue and he had the opposite opinion not that it was a no no but he said you could but it would dilute the wine. So obviously there likely isn't consensus on this opinion.