WineXpert Lodi Ranch Cabernet Sauvignion, Single Staging and Oak Options...

[JeanVin]

Hi, I am (even as I am typing this) in the process of starting my Lodi Ranch 11 Cab Sauv. The plan is to single stage in the carboy adding the myriad of oak powders and chips. This is my first time with this kit and I have a few questions...

Has anyone made this kit before and what are your thoughts on it?

How does single staging effect your wine? (I have done this on the recommendation by my brother-in-law but my wines are still aging and I haven't really notice much of a difference in flavors)

Lastly, thoughts on adding oak cubes vice the boxed options?

Thanks,

 

[JeanVin]

A moment of silence for the Lodi Ranch 11 CB...

You were taken away from us at such a young age. Freshly poured into a glass carboy, the oak with held and just kissed by yeast, just yearning to ferment.

The pride I felt as I carried you from the kitchen, clutched in my arms, down the stairs to the basement. I gripped you tight as I lowered you to the floor with the dreams of you being the greatest wine I ever made only to have you snatched away from me as you slipped from my grasp, less than an inch from the cold concrete.

Time slowed to a crawl as I heard the shatter of the carboy break and saw you gush over the floor in a tsunami of sorrow. I almost cried as mopped you up, with your dyes and tannins staining my hands... staining my soul.

Lodi Ranch 11 Cabernet Sauvignion, I will miss you but you will live forever as a stain on my concrete floor.

Rest in peace.

 

[Putterrr]

Ouch ! That hurts.

I always wear rubber gloves when moving / cleaning carboys for better grip. They sell those interlocking spongy mats which would be a soft base for any wine.

I shed a tear with you.

 

[harleydmn]

So sorry to hear this..........Time to jump right back in an get another batch going

 

[Dugger]

You know, I swore I heard a plaintive cry last night! That is so unfortunate and, although your poetic eulogy almost makes it bearable, I'm sure winemakers everywhere share your loss. A hard way to learn a lesson - never, ever, put a carboy on bare concrete.

 

[robie]

Sorry to hear what happened. That's just too bad.

I don't know for sure what you mean by single staging. I assume that means to leave wine in same container all throughout primary and secondary. Am I right?

What size was that carboy?

 

[JeanVin]

You are right about single staging, primary and secondary fermenting is done in the carboy. In this case it was a 23L carboy. Funny, I didn't soak up 23L of grape juice, the concrete took care of most of it.

From what I gather, single staging limits the amount of oxygen exposure during fermenting and it must slow down the fermenting process too. As for the effects on flavor and body... not too sure. Looks like I will have to make the same kit twice.

As for lessons learned, I am going to place the interlocking high density foam on the floor and purchase carrying a carrying harness too. The rubber gloves are a good idea too.

Thanks all for your condolences. At least it wasn't the finished product spilled over the floor.

 

[Rocky]

Jean, very sorry to hear of your loss. I have a plastic carrier that I guess was from a distilled water supplier long time ago. You might want to consider making or having made something like the carboy carriers Rick is showing in these pictures:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16205

 

[rob]

to bad, I made that kit and it was the best cab ever....sorry go buy another

 

[Flem]

OMG I'm so sorry for your loss. Unlike the carboy, you'll bounce right back. I loved your account of what happened. You must be a writer. Good Luck!!

 

[robie]

You are right about single staging, primary and secondary fermenting is done in the carboy. In this case it was a 23L carboy. Funny, I didn't soak up 23L of grape juice, the concrete took care of most of it.

From what I gather, single staging limits the amount of oxygen exposure during fermenting and it must slow down the fermenting process too. As for the effects on flavor and body... not too sure. Looks like I will have to make the same kit twice.

As for lessons learned, I am going to place the interlocking high density foam on the floor and purchase carrying a carrying harness too. The rubber gloves are a good idea too.

Thanks all for your condolences. At least it wasn't the finished product spilled over the floor.

That's what I thought you meant by single staging. Lots of us do that, except we don't do the fermentation in a carboy.

I am a little confused, though. That kit has a large grape pack and lots of oak. How did you get all that inside a 6 or 6.5 gallon carboy? The must by itself should come out to 6 gallons before you add the grape pack and the oak.

Also, I can guarantee you that must is going to produce a lot of foam, which should overflow a carboy rather quickly.

That wine should be stirred at least twice a day to push the grape skins down and to add some oxygen while in the primary fermentation stage.

How are you going to accomplish all that in a carboy?

If I were you, I would do the primary fermentation is a standard 7.9 gallon fermenter bucket, then transfer to a carboy for secondary. Otherwise, you could have a big mess on your hands and probably loose a lot of your wine through overflow.

 

[jdeere5220]

I agree with post above, although the W.E. Lodi kit doesn't have a skin pack, you still want to have a little extra volume during primary or you are going to have trouble and foam out the airlock. Also you don't need to worry about exposure to air during primary stage.

 

[robie]

I agree with post above, although the W.E. Lodi kit doesn't have a skin pack, you still want to have a little extra volume during primary or you are going to have trouble and foam out the airlock. Also you don't need to worry about exposure to air during primary stage.

I don't know why I thought she was talking about the EP Delu Ranch cab from RJ Spagnols. You are right, there is no grape pack for that WE kit. But like you said, it is still going to foam out the air lock.

Some of the grape pack kits foam so much that I finally bought a 10-gallon fermenter bucket.

 

[JeanVin]

Single staging works best when making wine kits, especially those which do not come with a grape pack. The other option, and one reason that the clean up of my Lodi Ranch went so well, is not to add the sawdust and broken toothpick packs of oak that comes with the wine kits. There are other options for oaking once the fermentation has stopped.

I haven't had an issue with foam over yet. There are two options to deal with that: 1) Don't add all the water to the kit, and then top it up to the 23L before stabilizing, and 2) use a stopper with a tube and hose to an expansion bucket.

The most foam that I have ever seen was from my Vanilla Mead.

I finally got my basement cleaned, now it is time to move the wine back in. I have three carboys that will be ever so gently handled... Wish me luck!

 

[wood1954]

Sorry to hear about your loss. All my jugs and carboys are like my little kids, i check them every day. I would hate to see one broken and spreading all over the floor. I tried single staging some fruit wine and it all seemed to be going well until i came home from work the second day of good fermentation. There was foam and juice all over the place. I had to transfer to a bucket due to all the foaming.

 

[JeanVin]

I guess I have been lucky with my single staging endeavors. I dropped the store where I bought my kit and told them my sob story. They are going to replace the kit for me at no cost. I just have to bring in the ID sticker. It will be in this Thursday.

I have now placed my carboys in milk crates for storage and transport. Has anyone had bad luck with this method?

 

[robie]

The milk crates certainly should help. I use the brew haulers for mine, but with them, I have clanked two carboys together accidentally and it is a wonder they didn't break. Sometimes it doesn't take much.

 

[JeanVin]

Robie, I guess the question is, "How long to carboys last and should they be replaced after a certain amount of time?"

I have clanked a few together too and I have been lucky. Four years into the hobby and this was my first loss.

 

[robie]

Robie, I guess the question is, "How long to carboys last and should they be replaced after a certain amount of time?"

I have clanked a few together too and I have been lucky. Four years into the hobby and this was my first loss.

With the carboys being glass, I don't know if I would ever consider them needing replaced. I have heard of carboys getting small hairline cracks running through them. In that case I think it would be very risky to continue to use them.

I have been reading a book about 200 year old wines. They do have to handle those bottles carefully as the glass, through some process I don't know about, becomes more brittle over such length of time.

Based on that, I guess I would say that when you have been using the same carboy for neary'on 200 years, you might consider replacements.

 

[JeanVin]

I will keep that in mind. I am sure that none of my carboys will make it that fine old age. 200 year old wines, eh? Now that I would like to try. I don't think that any of my wines would make it past two years. Although I am trying to make wine for a year down the road... the problem is that I keep drinking them!