Low pH in apple wine

[SeniorHobby]

Hello to all again,
I am doing a huge batch of apple wine, 125 lbs. I have a few questions. First, can I keep the apples in multiple bags instead of having them free roaming in my container? 2nd question. I have a pH of 2.70 and a total acidity of .50%. my acid was lower but I added some tartaric acid to bring it up. Little did I know that I was lowering my pH. My pH started out at 2.70 & is now at 2.54. My last years batch had a much higher acid level so I added calcium carbonate which brought my pH up. Right now I am in the unsafe zone for preservation. I'm at a loss.
Thanks!

 

[Rice_Guy]

pH 2.5 gets you in the range which citrus sodas use. Soda in a no oxygen CO2 environment is safe technology. If pasteurized at 140F (like a cider without CO2 ) it would also be shelf stable. Yeast don’t like much under 2.8. With a starter at pH 3 or even 2.7 you should be able to start a fermentation.

* What alcohol were you targeting? A 5 to 6% cider might finish dry. An 11% alcohol would probably get stuck due to that pH.
* yeast? 1118 is a strong yeast. I wouldn’t use one that dies off at 15%.
* since you are there I would try a fermentation but also be ready with calcium carbonate to pull the pH up to where yeast are happy.
* blending? A pH 4.5 ground peach would get the average up. Both peach and apple need pectic enzyme
* Next time you try this, do pH adjustment at the primary, you need to keep the yeast happy. Do TA adjustments at bottling based on taste, ,,, not the number.
* Apple has lots of malic acid but MLF doesn’t ferment well under pH 3.2

 

[ChuckD]

First, can I keep the apples in multiple bags instead of having them free roaming in my container?

I have left mine “free roaming” and strained through a colander into the carboy then racked and squeezed the copious lees through a very fine mesh bag prior to aging. Apples make air of lees!

 

[SeniorHobby]

Hello,
Well, I'm well into the ferment. Seeing as I had trouble with starting the ferment last year with the yeast starter. After that I sprinkled my yeast on top then was able to finish the wine. I used Calvin 71B and wasn't sure with the amount of apples I was using I chose to used two packets. Another thing I tried as I was a little worried about the flavor of the apples getting through the straining bags, I chose to squeeze the bags a couple of times a day. Along with knowing that I might have a quick die off of the yeast because of the pH I added a little Fermaid K and sprinkled another packet of yeast on top yesterday, so 4 days into the ferment. It is still fermenting, so I think I might be ok. As far as target alcohol, I'm not quite sure, I started with sg of 1.092 so, I'm assuming around 12? @Rice Guy, when you say my pH will get me in the citrus soda range, were you basing that on the yeast dieing off quickly? Do you see a problem with adding more yeast after a few days as I did? I get the getting the pH correct at the primary, never thought about correcting the acid later, good idea! As far as adding peach, where would you find that at this time of year and how does the peach flavor affect the wine apple flavor? Thanks for the replies! I was ready to throw the towel in on my last years apple and didn't with advice, glad I did as I added cranberry concentrate to the apple and I love it.

 

[SeniorHobby]

Hello,
Well, I'm well into the ferment. Seeing as I had trouble with starting the ferment last year with the yeast starter. After that I sprinkled my yeast on top then was able to finish the wine. I used Calvin 71B and wasn't sure with the amount of apples I was using I chose to used two packets. Another thing I tried as I was a little worried about the flavor of the apples getting through the straining bags, I chose to squeeze the bags a couple of times a day. Along with knowing that I might have a quick die off of the yeast because of the pH I added a little Fermaid K and sprinkled another packet of yeast on top yesterday, so 4 days into the ferment. It is still fermenting, so I think I might be ok. As far as target alcohol, I'm not quite sure, I started with sg of 1.092 so, I'm assuming around 12? @Rice Guy, when you say my pH will get me in the citrus soda range, were you basing that on the yeast dieing off quickly? Do you see a problem with adding more yeast after a few days as I did? I get the getting the pH correct at the primary, never thought about correcting the acid later, good idea! As far as adding peach, where would you find that at this time of year and how does the peach flavor affect the wine apple flavor? Thanks for the replies! I was ready to throw the towel in on my last years apple and didn't with advice, glad I did as I added cranberry concentrate to the apple and I love it.

Thinking more, adjusting the pH before the ferment helps with the ferment and keeping the yeast thriving. Adjusting the acid after the ferment will take the pH down to where its under the 3.0 range, does this mean that I have to resign a shorter shelf life?

 

[Rice_Guy]

Sorry the citrus based sodas in the Mountain-NN family frequently are pH 2.5 and cola sodas 2.3 or so.
Alcohol causes stress on yeast, and more alcohol means more stress. I hope you can ferment it out. Time will tell. You mention (whole?). apples. What I have seen is different trees producing anywhere from 3.2 to 4.2 pH. By crushing you hopefully will pull the pH up some.
Peach and other fruit pulps are available at as a flavoring at my local brew shop.

 

[SeniorHobby]

Apples were quartered, I used an apple type that my neighbor has no idea what type it is but I did add crab apple to bring up the tannins. I have no brew shop locally, but I will check on-line. How much peach pulp would you recommend for a 125 lb batch of the apple?

 

[SeniorHobby]

I was looking a little online & didn't find a lot of peach pulp, there was also puree, concentrate, nectar, slushy, syrup, powder, smoothie mix. I did find a white peach pulp. Is there a flavor difference between white and the regular orange peach?

 

[Jovimaple]

I had trouble with a Lalvin 71B starter last week for a batch of Dragonblood I am making. So I looked online and followed the manufacturer's instructions for rehydrating this yeast. It worked great!

https://admin.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/71B-TDS-ENG-Lalvin.pdf

 

[SeniorHobby]

I had trouble with a Lalvin 71B starter last week for a batch of Dragonblood I am making. So I looked online and followed the manufacturer's instructions for rehydrating this yeast. It worked great!

https://admin.lallemandbrewing.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/71B-TDS-ENG-Lalvin.pdf

View attachment 111529

Hi Joni,
Mine did just fine with sprinkling it on top both last year and this year. When I did a yeast starter with it I found that it didn't start so I just avoided that step and it worked fine.
Thanks for the help!
Bernice

 

[SeniorHobby]

Hi Joni,
Mine did just fine with sprinkling it on top both last year and this year. When I did a yeast starter with it I found that it didn't start so I just avoided that step and it worked fine.
Thanks for the help!
Bernice

Hello,
Wine is at 99.2 sg so I transferred to carboys. I have 20 gallons of apple wine, let the settling begin! On another topic, I had bottled my winter of 2022/2023 wine about a month ago, this morning there was a racket in my wine room, yes it happened, I had a bottle bomb. What a f....mess! Wine was everywhere!! I had turned the bottles inward on a shelf thinking that it would minimize any damage in case of bottle bombs, it didn't. I added calcium carbonate, apparently not enough!! Uuuggghhh! I was just about to post on my completed apple wine when, racket again, oh no!! Another one, that's two today! After my first bottle bomb I turned all the bottles around and checked the corks. Guess what I forgot one shelf! After checking this shelf I had two ready to blow! A couple of others suspicious! I threw them all in the refrigerator!! I can't remember what amount of calcium carbonate I added. I prefer sweet wines, is there a recommendation for the amount to add, taking into account a dry, vs a sweet wine?

 

[winemaker81]

I added calcium carbonate, apparently not enough

Calcium carbonate reduces acid. You need potassium sorbate + K-meta to prevent a renewed fermentation.

Every wine you backsweetened and treated with carbonate is a mini-volcano waiting to happen.

 

[ChuckD]

Take it from me. Uncork them all over a clean tub then pour the wine into a clean carboy to complete this new fermentation. Then get some fresh potassium sorbate so you can back sweeten (again) and stabilize.

 

[ChuckD]

Mine pushed corks but no bottles broke!

Live and learn!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Adding calcium carbonate will produce CO2 and raise the pH. The wine is less stable with a higher pH.
Are you below 3.5 on that batch?

 

[winemaker81]

Mine pushed corks but no bottles broke!
View attachment 111613
Live and learn!

Your photo is the best advertisement for "stabilize the wine before backsweetening!"

 

[SeniorHobby]

Take it from me. Uncork them all over a clean tub then pour the wine into a clean carboy to complete this new fermentation. Then get some fresh potassium sorbate so you can back sweeten (again) and stabilize.

I had the wrong terminology, I did treat with potassium sorbate. I'll have to check again on who fresh mine is. Thanks!

 

[SeniorHobby]

I had the wrong terminology, I did treat with potassium sorbate. I'll have to check again on who fresh mine is. Thanks!

I had ordered a bunch of new supplies, had to check again if my potassium sorbate was one of them. I did just get it in February of 2024 so mine should be fresh. I bought a bunch of wine bottles from a person going out of the hobby. I might have to add a little more then rebottle!

 

[ChuckD]

I had ordered a bunch of new supplies, had to check again if my potassium sorbate was one of them. I did just get it in February of 2024 so mine should be fresh. I bought a bunch of wine bottles from a person going out of the hobby. I might have to add a little more then rebottle!

It will no longer be sweet since fermentation has restarted. And I don’t believe new sorbate will stop an active fermentation. I would unbottle all of it and put it in an airlocked carboy for a few weeks to make sure fermentation is complete. Then you can stabilize, sweeten, and bottle.

 

[winemaker81]

It will no longer be sweet since fermentation has restarted. And I don’t believe new sorbate will stop an active fermentation. I would unbottle all of it and put it in an airlocked carboy for a few weeks to make sure fermentation is complete. Then you can stabilize, sweeten, and bottle.

Agreed.