making adjustments on one year old wine

[Siwash]

hey folks,

anyone here make TA/PH adjustments on finished wine that is 1 year plus old? I bought a Vinmetrica this fall and I tested some of last year's wine to see what the PH/TA levels are. The wine could use some acid adjustment but I am afraid to do so as I think it's too late to do it. The wine is aging in 14 gallon demis

thoughts? thanks

 

[Johnd]

hey folks,

anyone here make TA/PH adjustments on finished wine that is 1 year plus old? I bought a Vinmetrica this fall and I tested some of last year's wine to see what the PH/TA levels are. The wine could use some acid adjustment but I am afraid to do so as I think it's too late to do it. The wine is aging in 14 gallon demis

thoughts? thanks

It's only too late after it's in the bottle. Go for it!

 

[marino]

I'm in the same situation but haven't understood how to use the vinmetrica. Was going to bottle tomorrow, but maybe I'll try testing again

 

[NorCal]

Add by taste and in very small increments. I found that even .2g/l can change the flavor of a finished wine. In my case, it was for the better, but .5 g/l made it unappealing.

 

[Johny99]

As John says, not too late until it's in the bottle. I'd bench trial to make sure you like what happens before dosing the whole lot. My rule is bench trial, adjust a liter or so, taste. Ok?, sit two weeks and taste again. If you are still happy, adjust the lot.

 

[Siwash]

I'm in the same situation but haven't understood how to use the vinmetrica. Was going to bottle tomorrow, but maybe I'll try testing again

follow the instructions.. the vinmetrica is not too complicated

 

[marino]

Good advice. I never thought of that.

 

[dcbrown73]

Interesting. Question though. Say you take 1 liter to test with. Do you just leave the carboy or whatever a liter short (not topped up) during the process? I would think topping it up would alter the overall chemistry of the batch in waiting!

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Johnd]

I'm in the same situation but haven't understood how to use the vinmetrica. Was going to bottle tomorrow, but maybe I'll try testing again

If you've got some specific questions about how to run a particular test, lots of us use the same unit and would be happy to help you work through the process. Once you go through the process, it really becomes quite easy.

Anything in particular that you are not understanding how or why to do?

 

[Johnd]

Interesting. Question though. Say you take 1 liter to test with. Do you just leave the carboy or whatever a liter short (not topped up) during the process? I would think topping it up would alter the overall chemistry of the batch in waiting!

Inquiring minds want to know!

My typical volume for "messing around" with pH / TA and taste adjustments out of a single carboy batch is more like 25-50 ml, one liter is more than a bottle. 50 ml is plenty for making slight incremental adjustments and tasting until you're happy. You only need 5 ml to run your final pH / TA once you get it where you want it. Then you know where you'd like the whole batch to end up and proceed from there.

Even if you took out a whole bottle to test and taste with, and used it all up (at which point you're overserved and probably shouldn't be messing with your wine for a few hours), that's only 1/30th the volume of a 6 gallon carboy, the effects of topping back up with a like wine would be miniscule, if even detectable.

 

[Floandgary]

It's only too late after it's in the bottle. Go for it!

JMHO,,,It's really only too late after it's "Down The Hatch"!!

 

[Siwash]

I made a coupe of TA adjustments last evening. I added some tartaric acid. In the past I have added tartaric then tested within 24 hours. Should I wait longer or is the acid level already altered as soon as you add the acid? Also, what about wine temp? Does a colder temp impact on the wine chemistry (PH or TA)? I ask because I had the wine stored at very cold temp (low 40s) briefly - about a week - and i've since moved it to a more appropriate temp (low 60s).

So should I wait to retest? If so how long?

 

[NorCal]

Taste. For finished wine, I go by the mouth meter, not the vinemetrica.

 

[Johnd]

I made a coupe of TA adjustments last evening. I added some tartaric acid. In the past I have added tartaric then tested within 24 hours. Should I wait longer or is the acid level already altered as soon as you add the acid? Also, what about wine temp? Does a colder temp impact on the wine chemistry (PH or TA)? I ask because I had the wine stored at very cold temp (low 40s) briefly - about a week - and i've since moved it to a more appropriate temp (low 60s).

So should I wait to retest? If so how long?

The cooler your wine is, the longer it may take for the powdered acid to go into solution, but if you stir it in well, you should get results pretty quickly. Giving it a little time to integrate, maybe and hour or so, is something I normally do.

As @ NorCal said, don't forego tasting because you are testing with equipment, after all, taste is the most important, not getting to a certain TA or pH, assuming you're in the range of stability.......

 

[dcbrown73]

My typical volume for "messing around" with pH / TA and taste adjustments out of a single carboy batch is more like 25-50 ml, one liter is more than a bottle. 50 ml is plenty for making slight incremental adjustments and tasting until you're happy. You only need 5 ml to run your final pH / TA once you get it where you want it. Then you know where you'd like the whole batch to end up and proceed from there.

Even if you took out a whole bottle to test and taste with, and used it all up (at which point you're overserved and probably shouldn't be messing with your wine for a few hours), that's only 1/30th the volume of a 6 gallon carboy, the effects of topping back up with a like wine would be miniscule, if even detectable.

At 50lm test, you then just times however much you added by 75 for a six gallon batch?

 

[Siwash]

The cooler your wine is, the longer it may take for the powdered acid to go into solution, but if you stir it in well, you should get results pretty quickly. Giving it a little time to integrate, maybe and hour or so, is something I normally do.

As @ NorCal said, don't forego tasting because you are testing with equipment, after all, taste is the most important, not getting to a certain TA or pH, assuming you're in the range of stability.......

I dissolved it first in warm water...

My TA was 5.2 for the 2 demis I tested (post MLF TA dropped) and PH 3.66 and 3.5 respectively... Seems like a low TA IMO

 

[Johnd]

At 50lm test, you then just times however much you added by 75 for a six gallon batch?

What I typically do, is get the wine adjusted to the taste I like, and run TA and pH on that. Use Fermcalc to help me with the quantity of acid to bring the big batch up to that level, and work my way slowly towards the target, half of the calculated addition at a time.

I have a very accurate gram scale, but when I'm just adding minute amounts to a small sample, have a hard time trusting the decimals of a gram.............

 

[Siwash]

my older stuff (2015) has a strange PH/TA profile and the flavor is off too. The PH is 4.05 and the TA is .75% - so high acid and high PH. I thought it should work the other way - high TA = low PH? FWIW, I didn't carry out a MLF on the 2015 wine... I did this past fall and the wine is much better!

I have no idea what to do with the 2015 batch. I am not crazy about the flavour and even the color is very light (it's a cab-syrah blend)