Marechal Foch or Leon Millot

[willowhomestead]

Marechal Foch or Leon Millot


Which do you prefer to work with? Which do you prefer to drink?

 

[winemaker81]

As a winemaker, there's no difference. It's just grapes. I can't comment on growing.

For drinking, I prefer Foch ... but Leon Millot is also very good. I haven't made either in a long time, but IIRC, Foch takes longer to age.

 

[mgmarty]

Can’t comment on Leon Millot, but grow Foch here in Utah and it does very well. Makes great red wine. Oregon has quit a few vineyards. Does well there too.

 

[Greg Corey]

I had some spectacular Leon Millot in Michigan last year. It had a bit more deep dark fruit and a little less tannins than the Foch I have had. It was better than the Foch I had on that trip but it was a different winery, so hard to compare. However, the wine was so good, I’m growing 3 vines of Leon Millot now to test it out. I have access to a bit of Foch this year (in Utah like @mgmarty) and I’ll see if I can differentiate the flavors a little more. My vines won’t be producing for a while and I’m going to the Midwest again this year and I am intending on finding ways to do direct comparisons of those varietals.

Here’s my ultimate thought: Foch is becoming a “mainstream” grape outside of the cold hardy world it seems, which may be meaningful to you. Leon Millot in my opinion has huge potential but seems less tested. I guess it’s a question of slight differences in tannin and maybe some aspects of the flavor profile. As always, farming and preparation are a huge factor.

 

[mgmarty]

I had some spectacular Leon Millot in Michigan last year. It had a bit more deep dark fruit and a little less tannins than the Foch I have had. It was better than the Foch I had on that trip but it was a different winery, so hard to compare. However, the wine was so good, I’m growing 3 vines of Leon Millot now to test it out. I have access to a bit of Foch this year (in Utah like @mgmarty) and I’ll see if I can differentiate the flavors a little more. My vines won’t be producing for a while and I’m going to the Midwest again this year and I am intending on finding ways to do direct comparisons of those varietals.

Here’s my ultimate thought: Foch is becoming a “mainstream” grape outside of the cold hardy world it seems, which may be meaningful to you. Leon Millot in my opinion has huge potential but seems less tested. I guess it’s a question of slight differences in tannin and maybe some aspects of the flavor profile. As always, farming and preparation are a huge factor.

I’m up to sharing a bottle when my vintage is ready. Foch is so versatile. My daughter is a wine maker in Oregon, she loves the Foch in the region. It’s prolific, grows like a weed. In July I hedge and leaf pull. It’s easy to harvest to early when the numbers are in. Don’t. Please don’t. When the numbers hit start tasting. Foch has a bland taste unlit ripe. If you start tasting the grapes when the numbers hit, you will understand. It’s a beautiful grape.

 

[willowhomestead]

I’m up to sharing a bottle when my vintage is ready. Foch is so versatile. My daughter is a wine maker in Oregon, she loves the Foch in the region. It’s prolific, grows like a weed. In July I hedge and leaf pull. It’s easy to harvest to early when the numbers are in. Don’t. Please don’t. When the numbers hit start tasting. Foch has a bland taste unlit ripe. If you start tasting the grapes when the numbers hit, you will understand. It’s a beautiful grape.

I love the way you speak about it, it's like an art and a science at the same time. We are in Massachusetts but maybe someday we will be able to do a countrywide vineyard tour of all our forum growers! Wouldn't that be fantastic!

 

[Greg Corey]

I’m up to sharing a bottle when my vintage is ready.

And I you. My Aromella turned out very well and I’d like some other pallets palates on my Frontenac.

And @willowhomestead if only there were an easy way to send bottles to each other.

 

[willowhomestead]

And I you. My Aromella turned out very well and I’d like some other pallets on my Frontenac.

And @willowhomestead if only there were an easy way to send bottles to each other.

 

[Hazelemere]

Marechal Foch 2023

Leon Millot is too vigorous in my area. Jungle like growth. Flavour is fine. But I can grow really good Marechal Foch up to SG 1.098 which is always my target and ferment it with RC212/71B yeast combo with vitamin B containing nutrient which the RC212 yeast seems to like. Here is my taste of 100% homegrown organic Foch hand destemmed and uncrushed from a bottle the I just pulled out of my cooler.

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, blackberries

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age

Acid - Foch is usually acidic even after malolactic fermentation. Maybe slightly high but not by much which should allow it to age.

Flavour - Until I started using 71B yeast I couldn't get a Foch flavour that I liked. This is better than what I have made in the past unblended. It is rich and complex. In future I'll leave it longer in the carboy before I bottle it. Right now I'd rate it as good with the potential as it ages and drops tannin and acid to become good-very good.

So then I tried 75% Marechal Foch with 25% Regent Black Iris (blackberries, wild cherries and elderberries)

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, blackberries

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - this is good. I think it needs more time. Wild cherries in Black Iris improves it.

 

[VinesnBines]

Grow both. I made a wonderful field blend of 2/3 Foch and 1/3 Millot. They were harvested the same day. I’m so pleased, I plan to repeat. They did need MLF. I hope to barrel this year’s crop.
Note: The birds will attack Foch and Millot so be prepared to net early and often. I had to add more nets to my Foch zone nets.

 

[Hazelemere]

Grow both. I made a wonderful field blend of 2/3 Foch and 1/3 Millot. They were harvested the same day. I’m so pleased, I plan to repeat. They did need MLF. I hope to barrel this year’s crop.
Note: The birds will attack Foch and Millot so be prepared to net early and often. I had to add more nets to my Foch zone nets.

I don't know why this showed up on my computer but I'll go with it. What was SG at picking Foch and Leon Millot? What yeast(s) did you use to ferment.? Did you add nutrient? Did you hand or machine de-stem or ferment crushed fruit? How do you like the wine that you got from your blend?

 

[VinesnBines]

The sg of the blend was 1.093, ph was 3.5. I recall we were getting 23 or 24 brix at harvest I used a blend of Bravo and D254 yeasts and Color pro. I added Fermaid K after three days We used a crank crusher destemmer to crush the grapes. I harvested on 9/18/23 and crushed on 9/20 and pitched the yeast on 9/20. Added nutrient on 9/23 then submerged the cap, weighted down the submerged cap, snapped the lid on the fermenter and left town until 10/1. We pressed on 10/2. I added Lalvin 31 MLB. On 11/20, I added Hungarian oak cubes. I racked it once in November and again on 7/8/24 when I bottled.
I’m very happy with the wine. I get dark fruits and oak. I can’t keep the family out of it.
I was advised not to leave the Foch on the skins more than four days. I left it for 12 days without any off flavors.

 

[Hazelemere]

Marechal Foch 2023

Leon Millot is too vigorous in my area. Jungle like growth. Flavour is fine. But I can grow really good Marechal Foch up to SG 1.098 which is always my target and ferment it with RC212/71B yeast combo with vitamin B containing nutrient which the RC212 yeast seems to like. Here is my taste of 100% homegrown organic Foch hand destemmed and uncrushed from a bottle the I just pulled out of my cooler.

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, blackberries

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age

Acid - Foch is usually acidic even after malolactic fermentation. Maybe slightly high but not by much which should allow it to age.

Flavour - Until I started using 71B yeast I couldn't get a Foch flavour that I liked. This is better than what I have made in the past unblended. It is rich and complex. In future I'll leave it longer in the carboy before I bottle it. Right now I'd rate it as good with the potential as it ages and drops tannin and acid to become good-very good.

So then I tried 75% Marechal Foch with 25% Regent Black Iris (blackberries, wild cherries and elderberries)

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, blackberries

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - this is good. I think it needs more time. Wild cherries in Black Iris improves it.

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, chinese 5 spice, blackberries

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age

Acid - Foch is usually acidic even after malolactic fermentation. Maybe slightly high but not by much which should allow it to age.

Flavour - This is decent and should improve as it ages and the slight acid drops.

 

[Hazelemere]

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, chinese 5 spice, blackberries

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age

Acid - Foch is usually acidic even after malolactic fermentation. Maybe slightly high but not by much which should allow it to age.

Flavour - This is decent and should improve as it ages and the slight acid drops.

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, chinese 5 spice, blackberries, plums, cigar box

Tannin - good

Acid - good

Flavour - This is very good, interesting hybrid red. It is better than the last time I tasted it. 71B/RC212 yeast combo with yeast nutrient, no sulphite on ferment, hand destemmed, uncrushed, malolactic ferment on medium toast American oak cubes for 90-120 days, then rack, then sulphite i.e. 1/8 tsp potassium metabisulphite in an Imperial gallon (6 bottles) seems to work for this. It has a really good aftertaste which tells me that this is the way to make homegrown, dead ripe Marechal Foch in the future.

 

[Hazelemere]

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, chinese 5 spice, blackberries

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age

Acid - Foch is usually acidic even after malolactic fermentation. Maybe slightly high but not by much which should allow it to age.

Flavour - This is decent and shoufragrant ld improve as it ages and the slight acid drops.

retaste:

Appearance - clear, inky purple

Smell - good clean nose of coffee, chocolate, roast duck, Chinese 5 spice, blackberries, borderline ripe Italian prune plums

Tannin - good high enough for this wine to age.

Acid - the acid is improving. This is very slightly acidic but not by much.

Flavour - This is decent and improving. As a house wine for my palate it is fine. I'd like to see how it ages when the acid drops. Right now I'd rate as "good", not very good or excellent but certainly good. I have 22 mature Marechal Foch vines and will try to make something at least as good as this going forward with RC212/71B yeast combos as SGs 1.092 or higher. I'm tempted to mix it with wild blackberries/dried elderberries and maybe even wild cherries on at least a part of it i.e. a battle of the bands.

Here is my mantra for all of you winemaniacs on this website: make wine like Van Gogh would paint.......try everything!

 

[ChuckD]

How do Foch and Millot compare for growth, hardiness and disease resistance? I’m not sure but @Rice_Guy may have commented on growing Millot recently.

 

[Hazelemere]

How do Foch and Millot compare for growth, hardiness and disease resistance? I’m not sure but @Rice_Guy may have commented on growing Millot recently.

Leon Millot grows like a weed. Foch less so.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Chuck, , I like Millot as a low fungal spray variety. As far as growth it is less wild than Frontenac or even Briana.

There should be some Foch in Wisconsin grape growers, and Wisconsin vinters. I get to see it judging wines at state fair. Tannin on both isn’t as good as petite pearl.

Have you put a call in to UW? They had both in their test plots twenty years ago. If I hunt old computer hard drives I might have a report on how they looked in door county and Madison field trials. (Dr Amaya Atucha)

 

[Rice_Guy]

Chuck, Sampson Valley vineyard which is close to you is growing Foch. The main comment was it was hard to pick, but now is transitioned into high cordon. I like what the winery was doing with the variety. ,,, More general but it sounds like more growing degree days would help everything, especially their petite pearl. For them an east face slope helps dry the vines and achieve better mildew resistance.

 

[ChuckD]

Chuck, Sampson Valley vineyard which is close to you is growing Foch. The main comment was it was hard to pick, but now is transitioned into high cordon. I like what the winery was doing with the variety. ,,, More general but it sounds like more growing degree days would help everything, especially their petite pearl. For them an east face slope helps dry the vines and achieve better mildew resistance.

Thanks. It appears they don’t have a winery or tasting room on site. I may reach it to them anyway. I haven’t tasted a lot of Foch and can’t say I’ve tasted a single Millot

I have a southeast slope and good air drainage so I seem to be slightly less disease prone than some.