Other Mid range kit suggestions

[Drock]

Hi I am new to the whole wine making. After reviewing all kinds of threads on this forum I have decided that the first kit I will be making the super Tuscan, everyone seems to talk very highly of this kit. My problem is I don't want to wait 12-24 months to enjoy my wine. I am looking to also start a lower end kit that could be ready to drink in 6-9 months something like a cab sauv, Shiraz, or melbec. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[ColemanM]

I am finding my Cellar Craft GSM with grape skins at $99 to be pretty darn good while it is aging. It's only 3 months old but has great body and taste for being so young.


Sent from my iPhone using Wine Making

 

[bkisel]

Welcome to the forum!

I've had great success with the Vino del Vida (both regular and World Tour) series from RJ Spanols. I pay $75.00 US at my LHBS.

Vino del Vida
World Tour

 

[Elmer]

I would not spend any $ on anything less than a 16L kit.
In fact I have had some 16L kits that have rivaled some of the 18L kits I have made.

But why spend you time, effort and carboy space on something that maybe inferior to the good stuff.
Make 2 good mid range kits, and wait it out. and if you need to drink something quick make a Skeeter Pee or a Triple Berry Wine!

But this is just my opinion

 

[Boatboy24]

If you drink white wines, I'd highly recommend doing some of those for early drinkers. They are quite good at just 3-6 months. But like any other wine, patience pays. My high and medium end whites really get good at about 12 months. Even my mid range reds with grape packs have taken a year or more to come around. Having said that, I've made the CC Sterling Merlot and Syrah. Both are decent, but need a fair amount of tweaking, IMHO. I'd add tannin and oak to both and I wouldn't skimp.

The following is slightly off topic, but I'll say it anyway:

After 6+ months doing this, I started to realize that I just had to be patient (and I absolutely suck at being patient). Even the kits that were good at 6 months, became very good at 12. I now have several that are in the 18-24 month range and they are excellent. What I started doing after that first 6 months was making about double my consumption. I quickly got to the point where I wasn't even bottling until at least 6 months of age for kits. Then I'd bottle. You'll typically get 2 cases, plus 4-6 bottles from a batch. I'd only put those 4-6 bottles on the rack - at least half of them in splits. I tried to only consume those bottles the first 6 months after bottling. I wasn't successful, but really started to build up a supply. I'm now not touching too much before the 1 year mark. When I bottle, I box up two cases, and put the remainder on the rack. So, what am I saying? 1) Make as much as you can early on and 2) If you must drink 'em young, do so. But try and put at least a case of each batch away for longer term aging. Following item 1 will help you to accomplish this.

 

[Drock]

I would rather by something that is not quite as good that I could drink sooner then by the premium kits and end up tapping into them before they have reached potential. My goal is to have a good selection of wines that have reached potential in two years and then enjoy those great bottles. By having mid range bottles that I could drink in the meantime so I don't get tempted to drink the good ones before e that. Living in Ontario we have a wine monopoly where we have one store to buy our wine from and I usually spend roughly 20 per bottle on decent wine so if I can get away with spending 5 per bottle on something of similar quality it would be worthwhile and then once the premium wine reaches maturity it could rival wines that would normally cost between 30-40 dollar bottles

 

[richmke]

Price wise, there is not much difference in mid-range vs. high end kits. The mid range kits are typically in the $75-$100 range. The high end kits, I can buy on sale at $100-$130. I am debating picking an RJS Cellar Craft Rosso Fortissimo that is on special for $105. All price are from my LHBS. Shipping is about the same whether you buy a mid range vs. high end.

I admit, I started with high end kits, and drank them early. I am down to 12 bottles of the LE 2013 Argentine Malbec (Jan 2013), and blew through all the Old Vine Zinfandel I made right before that (Nov 2012).

My first kit was a Vintner's Reserve ($50 on sale), it came with the equipment kit. Basically barely drinkable, but I had fun making all the mistakes.

 

[sideways2]

Hey Drock!!

Don't get hooked into the notion that "lower" end kits are a waste of money and time or that they are bad...I very much dislike it when statements like that are used as a generalization...there are lots of GREAT 10L\12L kits from Winexpert, Vineco and RJS...

Check out a Chianti (Sangiovese), Beaujolais (Gamay\Bergamais), and even a Valpolicella!! All those are light easy drinking reds by nature so making them from a smaller kit is not going to be a far cry from the real thing!!

And I've made them all from Winexpert kits and enjoyed everyone of them!! In fact more than once LOL!!

Cheeky Monkey makes great kits but I think they are much more expensive down in the US than here in Canada...

You can even try a White Zinfandel or a Rose...both are very enjoyable young!!

People get hung up on how "big" the kit is...how many litres...blah blah blah...here's the thing...you can't make a Chianti into an Amarone so why try!!

Amarone's are big and rich and full and powerful...goes to say that the bigger the kit the more it's gonna closer represent the commercial varieties...

Chianti's...even a Beaujolais are supposed to be light...quick...fun...enjoyable with anything...why would I ever want a Chianti to be big and heavy?? I don't think I've ever had a commercial one that didn't resemble a light and fun nature...

So...be choosy on your reds by looking at the nature of the grape you are making...that'll lead you to which kit size to buy...where to put your money...

Whites was also another suggestion and that's true...if you happen to enjoy them!! I do and I usually have three on hand to enjoy in the summer!!

Hope this helps out!!

Toodles!!

 

[Dugger]

It has been my experience that red blends tend to drink sooner than varietals so my suggestion would be to consider that in your decision.
It has also been my experience that premium red kits, even at a young age and long before they reach their potential, are better than smaller kits so if money is not a determining factor (for most of us unfortunately, it is), make the premium kits for both short term and long term drinking, especially if you like full bodied wines. Premium kits in your area should in the $4-5 per bottle range.
Your Super Tuscan as a first kit sets a pretty high standard!

 

[sour_grapes]

I don't have a ton of experience, but it seems to my taste that the WE Selection series are drinkable pretty quickly. I had very good luck with the WE Selection International Argentine Malbec.

 

[GaDawg]

Hey Drock!!

Don't get hooked into the notion that "lower" end kits are a waste of money and time or that they are bad...I very much dislike it when statements like that are used as a generalization...there are lots of GREAT 10L\12L kits from Winexpert, Vineco and RJS...

That needed to be repeated!

 

[roger80465]

I agree, there are a few gems in the 10-12L kits. As an example, I am not a huge fan of Mosti kits, but the VN Amarone (all the supplied oak plus a pound of raisins and extra tannin in the primary) makes a very nice daily drinker. Certainly not an amarone but closer to a Valpo Ripassa. In fact, I enjoy that wine (now 9 months from pitching yeast) more than the Mosti Renaissance Amarone at 30 months or the Renaissance Impressions Amarone at 20 months.

I am making my second batch of WE World Vineyard Aussie GSM (adding tannins and oak blend cubes in bulk aging). Love this wine. In fact, I find the 10L kits with grape pack are really quite nice, if you add extra tannins. Certainly won't replace CC Showcase or RJS Winery Series but they have their place in my cellar.

 

[sideways2]

That needed to be repeated!

And this needed to be repeated as well:

"I would not spend any $ on anything less than a 16L kit...But why spend you time, effort and carboy space on something that maybe inferior to the good stuff."

That's just being a snob and especially to people starting out...

Again...nothing personal...my opinion...


Edited: Sorry GaDawg...thought you were being sarcastic until I saw you "liked" my posts LOL!! Fantastic!!

 

[Elmer]

And this needed to be repeated as well:

"I would not spend any $ on anything less than a 16L kit...But why spend you time, effort and carboy space on something that maybe inferior to the good stuff."

That's just being a snob and especially to people starting out...

Again...nothing personal...my opinion...


Edited: Sorry GaDawg...thought you were being sarcastic until I saw you "liked" my posts LOL!! Fantastic!!

That is the 1st time I have been called a "snob",
But you missed the last line of my post which indicated "But this is just my opinion".
And if I am correct the OP was soliciting opinions on mid range kits!

However the fact remains that a 10L kit is indeed inferior to a 16L kit, due to the amount of water vs juice, 16 or 18L vs 10L.
If they were not inferior in content and quality they would be selling for the same price, would they not?

However I did not make any assumption on taste, because that is personal.
I simply commented as someone who had made 10L kits for nearly 10 years. I have since switch over 16/18L kits and had my eyes opened.

But I will try to refrain from offering my "snob" opinion!

 

[zalai]

The way I would pick my wine kit :
Go to vineco.com , www.rjscraftwinemaking.com/ or winexpert .com and read the products or brands . Look for all the cab sauv , shiraz or malbec .
Read the descriptions how they should taste and find the body you are looking for . I would look for "body full " or "body 4-5 " and make your selection . With wine kits , most of the time you get what you pay for . Keep in mind who is your local store or how far you would travel to get your kit .

 

[bkisel]

My wife's favorite kit wine is the RJS VdV 9L Italian Pinot Gregio back sweetened with 2 cups of sugar. This is liked, by her (not me), more than any of the RJS WS kits I've done. $75.00 vs $125.00 US, go figure.

Can it be argued that until you get into kits with grape skins and such you just might be paying for extra water in the concentrate - like wine for like wine within a vendors series?

 

[sideways2]

That is the 1st time I have been called a "snob",
But you missed the last line of my post which indicated "But this is just my opinion".
And if I am correct the OP was soliciting opinions on mid range kits!

However the fact remains that a 10L kit is indeed inferior to a 16L kit, due to the amount of water vs juice, 16 or 18L vs 10L.
If they were not inferior in content and quality they would be selling for the same price, would they not?

However I did not make any assumption on taste, because that is personal.
I simply commented as someone who had made 10L kits for nearly 10 years. I have since switch over 16/18L kits and had my eyes opened.

But I will try to refrain from offering my "snob" opinion!

I apologize...I should not have called you a snob...your comment was snobbish...

By saying a 10L kit is inferior is wrong...sorry...

I've been a Scotch drinker for 25+ years now...I know my Scotch...I love a big smokey Scotch from the North or a peaty version from Islay...but I would never talk down a Speyside dram as being inferior...even though I am not a fan of Speyside Scotch...

And that's what I'm getting here...

According to Winexpert...both 10L and 16L kits contain pure juice and concentrated juice...it's the ratios that change...

So a Selection Italian Pinot Grigio will have the same taste qualities as the World Vineyard version...although body will change somewhat cause of the ratios involved...

Is the 10L inferior cause of the body?? No...but if you don't like the way the body presents itself that's fine...it can be stated that way...

When someone is asking for 10L\12L kit suggestions...give him a suggestion but there is no need to "push" a larger kit on someone when that is not what they want...regardless if you think its a waste or not...

The old saying...if you got nothing good to say...say nothing...

Cheers

Dave

 

[GaDawg]

And this needed to be repeated as well:
Edited: Sorry GaDawg...thought you were being sarcastic until I saw you "liked" my posts LOL!! Fantastic!!

No problem

 

[GaDawg]

However the fact remains that a 10L kit is indeed inferior to a 16L kit, due to the amount of water vs juice, 16 or 18L vs 10L.
If they were not inferior in content and quality they would be selling for the same price, would they not? opinion!

Isn't that like saying a Chevy pick-up is inferior to a Farrari without considering what one is going to do with it?

IMHO if one is looking for a kit that will be enjoyed early and that is the primary consideration, an Orchard Breezin kit may be far superior to a En Primeur Amarone. Different is not synonyms to inferior.

If I want a wine that I can sip by the pool on a 90* Georgia summer, give me a chilled watermelon/merlot. You can keep you full bodied chewie Amarone. I just can't imagine wanting a heavy full bodied wine when it's 98* in the shade

 

[Putterrr]

For many years I made 4 week wine kits. At the time, I thought they were very good. I then graduated to the 16L 6 week kits about 10 years back. My impressions were they they were indeed superior to the smaller kits. Over the last 3 years, i have stepped up in cost again to the 16L/18L with grape skins (reds) or 18L (whites). IMHO I would definately rate these kits above the lower level ones I made for years.

I always tell people to buy the best kits they can afford.

cheers