Mistaken Assumption About Water Used?

[JerryF]

There's probably already something about this on WMT somewhere but I haven't looked too deeply yet. One of the batches of kit wine that I'd recently done and now bottled for almost a month (Chianti) turned out quite well but going back through some of my notes yesterday I ran across where I'd actually used "distilled" water for my volume adjustments when putting it together. Now, it did eventually finish okay but I have other notes where I recorded my fermentation was less vigorous that I'd expected it to be. Temperature was maintained throughout ( 70 - 73 F) and I used the Lalvin 1118 yeast (dry; surface cast). When I did the water additions, as I state here, I used distilled water (because I had a bunch on hand). Well, I figured it's pretty "pure" so why not? Now it dawns on me though, I have seen comments on WMT and elsewhere that distilling water generally strips free oxygen out which is needed during primary fermentation! I took better notes with a batch I just put on several days ago (another thread- Wine Makers Choice Beaujolais) and the MAJOR differences are that I used commercial spring water (filtered but not distilled) and rehydrated my 1118 yeast before casting (per kit directions). Temperature being maintained roughly same range (72 - 74 F), pretty much all else being equal. EXCEPT - I have a VERY vigorous fermentation going on with a big cap almost 4 inches layer of heavy foam and bubbles on top! I can accept that the difference in how the yeast was introduced might have "some" effect but I'm putting the difference in activity level of fermentation down as the type of water I used! Lot's of oxygen!! I am somewhat surprised at the difference and don't ever plan on using distilled water again! Would I get any agreement on this?

Jerry

 

[DoctorCAD]

The kit has everything built in it to assure a good fermentation. The water brings very little with it.

Visual signs of fermentation are meaningless!!!!!!!

 

[seth8530]

I believe the bigger issue with distilled water vs tap water is that distilled can often lack many minerals... remeber, you can always work oxygen back into youf water if you find it needed.

 

[TonyP]

Jerry, I'm certain Seth has it right here. Distilled water is, well, just water. Yeast doesn't need more because (as the Dr. said) kits contain all that's needed. The only thing is that they'd benefit from more. So, while your wine kit will ferment adequately with distilled water it is likely to be sluggish. Beyond that, you're setting the stage for a stuck fermentation if temperature or other factors are present.

 

[JerryF]

Jerry, I'm certain Seth has it right here. Distilled water is, well, just water. Yeast doesn't need more because (as the Dr. said) kits contain all that's needed. The only thing is that they'd benefit from more. So, while your wine kit will ferment adequately with distilled water it is likely to be sluggish. Beyond that, you're setting the stage for a stuck fermentation if temperature or other factors are present.

Tony, Seth and Doctor .... thanks for the comments. Really, you're all absolutely correct and I should have known too - water is basically just that - water! I guess I'm just trying to reach for reasons for the level of activity seeming to be so much greater. There will be no temperature issues as I am able to control fairly well. I just have happier yeast this time around maybe.

 

[TonyP]

Jerry, to clarify my comment I didn't say water is just water. I said distilled water is just water. Other variants - spring, mineral, tap contain other stuff. In the case of spring water, the other stuff aids in fermentation.

 

[joeswine]

water and its quailityies

I THINK WATER QUALITY HAS A DIRECT BARRING ON THE TASTE OF YOUR WINE DEPENDING ON WERE YOUR WATER IS COMING FROM AND YOUR DELIVERY SYSTEMS TYPE AND AGE.COPPER PIPES CAN LEACH OFF ,WELL WATER IN MANY PARTS OF THIS COUNTRY CAN BE HARD OR HAVING ODORS ,DOES THIS ALL MAKE A DIFFERENCE,THAT DEPENDS ON THE WINEMAKER ,FOR ME SPRING WATER OR FILTERED WATER IS PREFERRED THERE IS A DIFFERENCE FROM DISTILLED WATER,YOU WOULD WANT TO USE THAT IN AN APPLIANCE THAT'S USES WATER AS PART AS ITS SYSTEMS OF OPERATION.
ACTUALLY IF YOU THINK OF A KIT AS CONNECTING THE DOTS MOST TAP WATER WILL DO FOR MOST,IT,S UP TO THE MAKER,AS FOR ME I ONLY WANT THE FLAVOR THAT THE KIT IS SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE AT THE FINISH UNLESS I CHOSE TO CHANGE IT'S PROFILE.

 

[JerryF]

Jerry, to clarify my comment I didn't say water is just water. I said distilled water is just water. Other variants - spring, mineral, tap contain other stuff. In the case of spring water, the other stuff aids in fermentation.

Good point and agreed. I am on well water here (I guess spring water) and although very cold, clear and tasty, I've had it tested and it shows high (that is - elevated, compared to other areas) mineral content (magnesium, calcium and iron) but of particular interest is there's a quite high level of iron sulfide, which is condusive to promoting of iron sulfide bacterium. I don't use this for any of my winemaking.

 

[robie]

I agree with Joe. I wouldn't use distilled water. As far as oxygen-free is concerned, the distilled water, after it has set for any time at all, will reabsorb oxygen naturally. I think it is more about the lack of any minerals. Have you ever tasted distilled water?

When you add the (any) water to your concentrated must, you always should stir it hard enough to stir in a lot of oxygen. Any must needs that to get fermentation going well.

 

[GEM]

I think the main issue with tap water is chlorine content. You never want chlorine around any of your wine, either in the water or from cleaning implements with chlorine based cleaners. Thus, you should use bottled spring water or RO water if at all possible. That's what I learned in my winemaking class. Gary

 

[Dugger]

I believe the issue of chlorinated water is given a bad rap. I have used both well water and municipally treated water with no difference in the results. My understanding is that chlorine readily disippates out of the water and also any sulphites present in the must, and any grape juice usually has some naturally occurring sulphites, chemically changes the chlorine to neutralize it.
In my opinion, it is safe to use chlorinated water to make your wine. Using it for cleaning natural corks is another issue and perhaps can be a problem.

 

[captainl]

I have a theory that water can make a HUGE difference in KIT wine making. Ive been thinking about this for a while.

The first being the change of ph that it can make happen. Down here in texas the local water municipals like to pre soften our water through an ion exchanger. this removes calcium and "hard" minerals and replaces them with a lot of SODIUM and increases the ph to around 9.0. Distilled and RO water should have a minimal impact on the ph compared to a heavily buffered water with a low or high ph. Early into my beer brewing I realized the flavor impact of salt in beer is not a pleasant one. I can't imagine sodium having a good effect on a kit wine.

It is commonly known that chlorine can leave a horrible medicinal off flavor in beer. However chlorine can be removed easily. Unfortunately a lot of water companies are switching to using CHLORAMINE which is more stable and will not evaporate out of the water. You can remove chloramine by treating the water with K meta before use. However, we don't add k meta to kits and the little that is in the must might not be enough to attach to and dissipate the chloramine. I sometimes wonder if this "kit taste" is somehow attributed to chloramine. It might explain why cheaper kits with more water tend to show this off flavor more.

Flavor ions. In beer brewing calcium, sulfate, magnesium, and chloride are important flavor ions that must be considered. Water in different parts of the world can have vastly different mineral profiles. In an IPA large amounts of sulfate can help smooth out the bitterness. Chloride ions help bring the malty flavors out in other styles. Magnesium brings out a sour bitterness flavor. Every advanced beer brewer analyses these and adjust accordingly. I find it strange that no one even considers these when making KIT wines or wines in general. Certain terroirs can acquire their flavors through the minerals in the soil. Could we adjust these minerals in must to positively impact the flavor? Surely commercial wineries have at least experimented with this....but I have never heard anything about it.

This is why I stick with reverse osmosis water. So I can stick with how the kit was intended. But one day when I get enough time I would love to do some bench trial with different minerals, chloramine vs no chloramine, and the effects of water ph on ph change and flavor.

I think water chemistry could be just as important in wine making.

 

[TonyP]

As with many things, the issue with chlorinated water is degree. I believe most public water systems are fine, but I've been to places where you tell the water was chlorinated by turning on the shower and taking a whiff. In those cases, it's possible to use tap water, just let it sit for a day to allow the chlorine to dissipate.

Having said all that, I prefer bottled (spring) water when I make wine because I'm concerned about the possibility of micobes. But that's me.

 

[saramc]

Also SO2 is commonly used to remove chlorine from water.

 

[FABulousWines]

I really appreciate this thread. I am starting my first batch soon. Our tap water is horrible. I have to use a water softener to wash the car the spotting is so bad. We generally don't drink our tap water; it smells funny and tastes weird. It is not going in my wine! We usually drink bottled water, soft drinks, and, er, wine. I was all set to pick up some distilled water on my way home today, but after reading this thread I will go for some spring bottled water. Thanks again for keeping this newbie on track!

 

[HillPeople]

No distilled water.
No chlorinated/fluoridated water.
Use filtered spring water with a neutral pH.