Mosti Mondiale MM Renaissance Italian Pinot Grigio

[Flem]

Hi again,
Just pitched the yeast on my second kit.  (First was a RJS Winery Series, Washington Merlot - now in secondary). 
Big difference from the RJS kit is that I rack to secondary with a SG of 1.040 - 1.050, put oak chips in, and add yeast nutrient.  Sounds like a lot of very active fermentation in secondary. 
Additionally, somewhere down the line, I add Kristalblok.  Nothing is mentioned about this in the instructions.
Any suggestions on this kit will be appreciated.  I'll keep you posted as I progress.
Thanks,
Mike
 
I believe at least a couple of you have made this kit.  Mike (ibglowin)?

 

[ibglowin]

Ah, yea........

Don't rack to secondary @ 1.040 and add yeast nutrient unless you enjoy seeing your wine spew out the top of the carboy!

Do a search for "wine volcano"!

 

[v1rotate]

Hi again,

Just pitched the yeast on my second kit. (First was a RJS Winery Series, Washington Merlot - now in secondary).

Big difference from the RJS kit is that I rack to secondary with a SG of 1.040 - 1.050, put oak chips in, and addyeast nutrient. Sounds like a lot of very active fermentation in secondary.

Additionally, somewhere down the line, I add Kristalblok. Nothing is mentioned about this in the instructions.

I haven't made this particular kit, Mike, but I have made at least 1 Renaissance kit. The notes I have for the Shiraz kit I made on 11/09 indicate that I racked to the carboy at 1.035 and got a wine volcano! Duh. As ibglowin Mike suggests, wait until 1.010 SG, add the nutrient in the bucket and rack carefully to the carboy. It would be wise to stop the racking at about 5 gallons for a few minutes to see if there is any volcanic activity brewing and then finish the racking.

I am not familiar with Kristalblok. Good luck with that!!!

 

[Flem]

Ah, yea........

Don't rack to secondary @ 1.040 and add yeast nutrient unless you enjoy seeing your wine spew out the top of the carboy!

Do a search for "wine volcano"!

Mike,


Thanks for the "heads up". I'm aware of wine volcanoes even though I haven't experienced, nor want to, one.
Actually the instructions say to add the nutrient to the bucket and stir "for a few seconds" and then splash rack to the carboy. Could I just wait for an hour or so before racking? Would that alleviate the problem? Or is the relatively high S.G. the problem?


Thanks,
Mike

 

[ibglowin]

Definitely add to primary and then just wait it out.

An hour may be enough to settle down but go very slowly at the end........just in case!

 

[wjdonahue]

Mike always has good advice (grin). I wouldn't ever rack at 1.040, in Fact I have gotten in the habit of racking very close to the 1.000 just to jmake sure that I don't have volcano problems.
One of the problems with kit instructions is that they give TIME FRAMES for when to do each step, IE "after ten dfays, etc., or "on day 14". While these are a "ballpark" time frame useful to the newbie, they can get you into a lot of trouble. They come up with these time frames in their lab, under perfect conditions which are never achievable in the real world. They give you the SG readings, so always use those. A couple degrees difference in temp in your cellar can make a huge differene it the times.
I also find it interresting now that CC has added a comment for their grape pack reds that suggest that you let primary go 10 to 12 days to get maximum maceration extraction from the grape pack (color, tanins, etc.) before racking off the primary. With this time frame, you would be racking off primary with the SG at lower than 1.000. Guess I have just been ahead of the game (laughing.)
Also a Quick comment on nutrients. We have alays been taught to use DAP (Yeast nutrient containing diammonium pholphate) and this is still supplied is some kits. Interresting that Lallemand (Lalvin) now has a warning (because of research done at Geisenheim) that ammonium containing compounds are actually toxic to the yeast during the rehydration and activation phases of the yeast. I have, as have the commercial wineries that I work with, switched to using GoFerm for rehydration, and Fermaid-K for active fermentation. Amazing difference in the speed and vigor of the entire fermentation. Almost like supercharged fermentation when compared to DAP. I would definitely recommend, the small cost is well worth it.

 

[Flem]

Mike always has good advice (grin). I wouldn't ever rack at 1.040, in Fact I have gotten in the habit of racking very close to the 1.000 just to jmake sure that I don't have volcano problems.
One of the problems with kit instructions is that they give TIME FRAMES for when to do each step, IE "after ten dfays, etc., or "on day 14". While these are a "ballpark" time frame useful to the newbie, they can get you into a lot of trouble. They come up with these time frames in their lab, under perfect conditions which are never achievable in the real world. They give you the SG readings, so always use those. A couple degrees difference in temp in your cellar can make a huge differene it the times.
I also find it interresting now that CC has added a comment for their grape pack reds that suggest that you let primary go 10 to 12 days to get maximum maceration extraction from the grape pack (color, tanins, etc.) before racking off the primary. With this time frame, you would be racking off primary with the SG at lower than 1.000. Guess I have just been ahead of the game (laughing.)
Also a Quick comment on nutrients. We have alays been taught to use DAP (Yeast nutrient containing diammonium pholphate) and this is still supplied is some kits. Interresting that Lallemand (Lalvin) now has a warning (because of research done at Geisenheim) that ammonium containing compounds are actually toxic to the yeast during the rehydration and activation phases of the yeast. I have, as have the commercial wineries that I work with, switched to using GoFerm for rehydration, and Fermaid-K for active fermentation. Amazing difference in the speed and vigor of the entire fermentation. Almost like supercharged fermentation when compared to DAP. I would definitely recommend, the small cost is well worth it.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it. The kit did specify a SG of between 1.040 and 1.050 in addition to the estimated range of Day 3-5.
It was quite high compared to my last (first) kit, however it did not use a nutrient, whereas, this one does.

 

[v1rotate]

I don't understand why Mosti would recommend racking to the carboy between SG 1.040 and 1.050, Mike. OTOH, I respect their research on the best way to make their kits. I have 2 MMAJ kits going at the moment, Barolo and Petit Syrah. I racked them at 1.035 and 1.040 with no problems with the dreaded volcano.

If you decide to rack now, just go very slowly as the carboy nears the top. It'll be interesting to hear how it goes for you.

 

[Flem]

Update on my MM Renaissance Italian Pinot Grigio: S.G. got to 1.042 on day 5 of Primary. I added the yeast nutrient to the must in the primary bucket, stirred it occasionally for about 45 minutes before I transferred it to the carboy. I first filled a 750 ml bottle and added it back in afterwards in case it started to erupt. Fortunately, I didn't get the dreaded volcano.

I'm now supposed to keep it there for a week or so (.996 or less) and then degas.
Thanks for your input. You probably saved me a big mess.
Mike

 

[v1rotate]

Update on my MM Renaissance Italian Pinot Grigio: S.G. got
to 1.042 on day 5 of Primary. I added the yeast nutrient to the must in
the primary bucket, stirred it occasionally for about 45 minutes before
I transferred it to the carboy. I first filled a 750 ml bottle and
added it back in afterwards in case it started to erupt. Fortunately, I
didn't get the dreaded volcano.
I'm now supposed to keep it there for a week or so (.996 or less) and then degas.
Thanks for your input. You probably saved me a big mess.
Mike

Good to hear it went ok. Degassing will be easier if you wait about 2
weeks. I think the flavor of the end result is slightly better too!

 

[bcfryer]

Flem, How is the Pinot Grigio doing? I started my first MM kit the Renaissance Pinot Grigio.My last 6 kits were all RJS Winery series. Quite a bit of difference in the two companies instructions. RJS has you get the bentonite in the primary first and add the juice and then pitch the yeast by sprinkling on top and no stirring. MM has you hydrate the yeast before pitching. Wonder what the difference is? Then I read about the initial racking at 1.040 I alwaysleft the RJS Winery series in the primary until I got down to almost dry. The nutrient pack is also different. More than one way to skin a cat they say.

 

[ibglowin]

Be careful if you follow the directions and rack at 1.04 and add the nutrient. Just do a search under "wine volcano".......

Most all of us who have done MM kits now add the nutrient at 1.04 and then just leave it in the primary until closer to 1.000.

 

[bcfryer]

I will follow your advice and leave it in the primary longer. When did you add the oak?

 

[ibglowin]

Oak should be added per the directions.

 

[bcfryer]

Moving right along with the kit. I added the nutrient at a gravity of 1.040 while still in the primary. Let it work another 24 hours down to a gravity of 1.035 and racked to the secondary, a glass Italian carboy. Also added the oak at this time. All is well and no volcano , just a steady bubble , bubble , bubble at the air lock.


See if I get this right. I have never bulk aged more than what the kit instructionhave suggested. I would like to bulk age this kit. So at the end of the fermentation stage and gravity at.996or so for a few consecutive days I should rack to a clean carboy add the kit supplied metabisulphate, top off with a like wine and hold off on the other, the sorbate and the two clearing agents until a few weeks prior tobottling.


Maybe by the time I bottle which will be at 3 months, I will aquire a sulphite test kit or whatever to get the correct dose needed.


Let me know if I missed something.

 

[PeterZ]

You are right on the money.

 

[ibglowin]

I would not add the sorbate on this guy as long as it gets fermented to dry .998 or less and there is not f-pack of sorts that adds any additional sugar post fermentation. I made several Mosti Whites including this one. The moment I added the sorbate both wines which tasted fantastic prior to the addition now tasted like bad bubble gum from your childhood days of collecting baseball cards and such. It took the wine a full year for that smell/taste to dissipate. I have not seen this problem with any of the Cellar Craft kits that I had to add sorbate due to the use of an F-pack post fermentation.

Caveat emptor!

 

[bcfryer]

Buyer Beware I heard that.


Itsday 15 and still a smalllllll amount of bubbbbbbles. Will check gravity again tomorrow. Maylet thisset a few more days like to day 21 or so before going to the clean carboy forbulk aging.


Is there any more or less of concern when omitting the sorbate with a white kit like the MM Renaissance Pi not Grigio withno F pack and a red like the EPCab that I will be starting next?Both will be fermented to dry.

 

[ibglowin]

What is the SG now? It could be finished and just starting to release CO2 (degas on its own). As long as you are fermented to dry and you use the normal and proper sanitization techniques you don't need the sorbate on any kit red or white. It is needed if you add any sugar post fermentation. Its included as an insurance policy just incase you somehow did not ferment it to dry.

 

[v1rotate]

As long as you are fermented to dry and you use the normal and proper sanitization techniques you don't need the sorbate on any kit red or white. It is needed if you add any sugar post fermentation. Its included as an insurance policy just incase you somehow did not ferment it to dry.

Actually, according to Tim Vandergrift of Winexpert, the primary function of sorbate is to help prevent spoilage. Here is a quote of his from another forum:

But you have to understand that the sorbate is there to inhibit a category of
moulds and microbiological organisms. Although this includes yeast, preventing
re-fermentation isn't the primary mission for sorbate in dry wines--it's
preventing spoilage from these other organisms. You give that protection up when
you leave it out.

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