Multiple additions?

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Joined
Aug 12, 2024
Messages
16
Reaction score
12
Location
Knoxville, Iowa
Hi, everyone. Brand new member...recent vineyard owner/manager...experienced with brewing, but new to winemaking. As a newbie, I don't mind asking stupid questions, and I have a couple such questions. But they are unrelated, so I will ask them in two separate threads.

Here's the first: Are there any reasons not to add additional juice or must to an active fermenter within a reasonable amount of time? Obviously, you have to be mindful of sanitary practices and make sure it all happens in primary fermentation. But I can think of two scenarios (that we happen to be facing) where this might be practical. First, let's say your harvest crew is small, and you can't harvest a full block in a single session. You harvest and press, let's say a third, and inoculate. Then you come back the next day, harvest and press another third, and add it to the active fermentation. Then a couple days later, you finish the rest.

The other scenario would be if you have uneven ripeness in your vineyard, maybe because the sun hits more in one area, or you didn't get to shoot thinning/hedging in time. So you do a pass to get the really ripe grapes one day, then do a second pass a week later, after the others have had a chance to come along, adding the second pass to the fermenter.

I could see this might be more complicated with red wines. But for whites not fermenting on the skins, is there anything wrong with adding fresh sugar to active yeast in this way before they floc out? I know breweries sometimes mash half a batch one day and pitch yeast, then brew another half the next day and add it to the fermenter. They do it because their fermenters are larger than their brewhouses, but the bonus is that the first day's fermentation acts like a big yeast starter for the second day, and they don't have to pitch as much yeast. They wouldn't spread it out over several days or weeks, because the fermentation schedule is pretty short. But for wine, that is going to age for months anyway, would it cause any issues?

Thanks!

Chris
 
* for reds I would ask why? Home folks can use several brute drums and commercial size could use several polyethylene totes. You could use several yeast to add complexity or other variables for complexity, then blend off primary.
* Above 1/3 sugar (1.050) it shouldn’t matter. If you are into where the metabolism has switched over to alcohol production you don’t want to oxygenate. Where in the fermentation do you plan on? ,,, I do it but mainly for topping up around 1.030 and with a low volume of refrigerated juice.
* Whites, using northern hybrids, a common operation is to refrigerate / freeze to 28F to precipitate tartaric acid. What is your TA? You could chill the juice and improve TA and on day two add the second block.
* Whites can ferment at 50F. I have done 45F and it will take a week to get below 1.050. What equipment do you have available? What estimated volume? We all “make it work”.
* Just a guess but if you have clusters that aren’t color wise ripe, the TA on everything will be better if you practice patience. Picking is major work, especially with six acres. Anyway the local commercial winery will invite Wine club retirees to pick usually on a Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday. Friday grapes will sit till the next week. Commercially this also fits into their labor and tank rotation.

Your questions aren’t really separate. We all look at decisions in process. The overwhelming answer is get the crop with available labor. One choice might be avoiding pressing on day one and run the totes along with grapes trucked in from neighbor X tomorrow. ,,, To your original idea, yes it has been done but try to avoid lots of mixing below 1.010 since it’s anaerobic.
 
* for reds I would ask why? Home folks can use several brute drums and commercial size could use several polyethylene totes. You could use several yeast to add complexity or other variables for complexity, then blend off primary.
* Above 1/3 sugar (1.050) it shouldn’t matter. If you are into where the metabolism has switched over to alcohol production you don’t want to oxygenate. Where in the fermentation do you plan on? ,,, I do it but mainly for topping up around 1.030 and with a low volume of refrigerated juice.
* Whites, using northern hybrids, a common operation is to refrigerate / freeze to 28F to precipitate tartaric acid. What is your TA? You could chill the juice and improve TA and on day two add the second block.
* Whites can ferment at 50F. I have done 45F and it will take a week to get below 1.050. What equipment do you have available? What estimated volume? We all “make it work”.
* Just a guess but if you have clusters that aren’t color wise ripe, the TA on everything will be better if you practice patience. Picking is major work, especially with six acres. Anyway the local commercial winery will invite Wine club retirees to pick usually on a Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday. Friday grapes will sit till the next week. Commercially this also fits into their labor and tank rotation.

Your questions aren’t really separate. We all look at decisions in process. The overwhelming answer is get the crop with available labor. One choice might be avoiding pressing on day one and run the totes along with grapes trucked in from neighbor X tomorrow. ,,, To your original idea, yes it has been done but try to avoid lots of mixing below 1.010 since it’s anaerobic.
This is all really great information, thank you very much for taking the time to respond.

I wouldn't see doing this for our red variety at all, just the whites. And fortunately, the three varieties we have (Chancellor, Seyval Blanc, and La Crescent), each about two acres, are maturing at different rates.

The main issue is that our La Crescent is super vigorous, and I wasn't in town to get the vines hedged in a timely manner. So some of the fruit was hidden and is lagging behind. We're in no hurry. I just don't want some clusters rotting on the vine while the others catch up. This is all new to us, so I'm not sure how long is too long to keep the fruit on the vine after it's reached its peak.

But chilling the juice to precipitate TA and/or slow fermentation is a great idea. And I see now that reducing O2 uptake is going to be the biggest challenge to adding more juice, if the respiration phase has already completed, just like with beer.
 
You can freeze whole clusters or crush and freeze the must in buckets. If you mix the frozen with fresh crush, you essentially do a cold soak. A two gallon freezer bag will hold eight to ten pounds of whole cluster grapes.

You will learn how long is too long to let them hang.
 
You can freeze whole clusters or crush and freeze the must in buckets. If you mix the frozen with fresh crush, you essentially do a cold soak. A two gallon freezer bag will hold eight to ten pounds of whole cluster grapes.

You will learn how long is too long to let them hang.
Thanks! I was wondering how long you could refrigerate clusters before they got slimy. But I have a big empty cheat freezer, if freezing clusters works. We'll need to get some picked or dropped this weekend. A lot are good to hand a while longer. We had some inconsistency, because we were late in getting the canopy trimmed. But we won't have the winery equipment until next week, so I was looking for a way to cold store maybe half a ton for a few days.
 
A local winery kept a harvest two weeks in a chill room until the equipment arrived. I froze grapes for several months and still have some from last year. I’ll add last year’s frozen to this year’s harvest..
You can buy frozen grapes so freezing works.
 
I would expect the fermentation to complete if you added enough yeast for the entire batch up front, added nutrients in proportion with your must additions, and only added to the must during the first few days, while the yeast are in growth mode. Added a significant proportion to the must, too late in the ferment cycle and the yeast may run out of steam, resulting in a stuck ferment.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top