My Rose doesn't taste like it should

[Obelix]

Hi winemakers.

My Rose doesn't taste like it should.

After making a reasonable large quantities of red for 4-5 years I found myself in trouble with the storage, so this year I decided to make less, and given I have a lot of red wine around I decided to make Rose.
I thought it would be the same process as for the red wine, but pressed early

I bought 6 boxes of Grenache (120-140kg) , crushed it and pressed after 24 hours.
Another 24 hours I added the malolactic bacteria. (VP41)
Allowed it to ferment to zero BRICS , then raked into a bulk storage.
Added sulfites after a few days and left it in the bulk storage for 7 months. Ended up with around 70 liters.
Moved 50L into a beer keg, and bottled the rest.

The colour is a bit darker than Rose - but still light and very clear. Looking great.
So the taste...It is drinkable, but somehow too rounded, smooth. It lack a bit of a sharpness a nice Rose should have.
No sweetness either as it fully fermented.
(photo attached - called it "Opol" as that's what Dalmatians call the wine pressed after 24 hours)

I'll try again this year, but was hoping for some advice on where to improve the process.

This year I was thinking - maybe no VP41, and stop the fermentation at around 7-8 BRICS to keep some sweetness?
But would rather avoid another 70L failure.
Looking forward to your advice.

Cheers Dan

 

[Ohio Bob]

You did not mention what yeast you used, was this a wild ferment?

Also, malolactic is very sensitive to Kmeta, so you likely killed the bacteria when you added the Kmeta after 7 days. After it fermented dry you bulk aged for 7 months, I’m guessing there might have been some gross lees still around.

 

[Obelix]

You did not mention what yeast you used, was this a wild ferment?

Also, malolactic is very sensitive to Kmeta, so you likely killed the bacteria when you added the Kmeta after 7 days. After it fermented dry you bulk aged for 7 months, I’m guessing there might have been some gross lees still around.

Thanks.
I think the fermentation took a few weeks to fully complete. I guess I should have raked it once more. This could improve the taste , but the taste is not so bad, just not a "Rose" like. More like a Grenache with less tannin.

 

[Obelix]

re:yeast
Sorry, missed this.
AW4 - Mangrove Jacks
White wine/Rose yeast

 

[Rice_Guy]

? acid? Test a glass of the wine with a pinch of acid blend. (wine judges do this). Does it lose the smoothness? more refreshing?

A rose is usually made like a white wine with a lower pH, a higher TA (acid is a preservative). Tannin in reds magnifies acid flavor so they are put together at a lower acid.
Yes in the US market sugar / sweet is normal / 1.002. Sweet increases fruity notes. As a test add 5 grams/ a tablespoon to a bottle of 2023, mix and taste.

Do you have access to 2023 TA? pH? gravity numbers? We are looking for balance.

 

[winechef]

Rose
I don't think I'd use Malolactic fermentation. I'd use a yeast that enhances fruity notes lavin 117 I think I'd have to check. I use one I love but not sure what a comparable western product. it's called.

you want a crisp acidic fruitiness. if oak would use light to medium char

personally after crushing grapes I'd cold soak overnight, then start fermentation, after 1 day can press but check color first if color is too light press after 1 more day fermentation. keep the temperature cooler I usually aim for 18 to 20, higher if want a deeper red. I typically press 3 days after crushing

 

[Obelix]

Thsnks guys.
@winechef
I have a limited control over the environment. Whatever is the temperature outside, that's it, and with the climate change, the grapes are harvested early. It will be late January, and hot (Australia).
Having said that, the colour is not a big concern. At this heat, 24 hours is plenty.
I bought an appropriate yeast I think. Will research it more ahead this year around

 

[Obelix]

? acid? Test a glass of the wine with a pinch of acid blend. (wine judges do this). Does it lose the smoothness? more refreshing?

A rose is usually made like a white wine with a lower pH, a higher TA (acid is a preservative). Tannin in reds magnifies acid flavor so they are put together at a lower acid.
Yes in the US market sugar / sweet is normal / 1.002. Sweet increases fruity notes. As a test add 5 grams/ a tablespoon to a bottle of 2023, mix and taste.

Do you have access to 2023 TA? pH? gravity numbers? We are looking for balance.

Cheers Rice Guy,
I think I could improve the current year ,whatever is in the beer keg with some sugar and some acid. Not sure which acid to get and how much to use.
I have some Lacmus papers for the ph and also digital meter. Will use it.
Not much else for testing

 

[winechef]

Take 5 liter bottles of water and freeze them out one bottle every 8 hours should be enough to keep lower temps. there's always a way. once fermentation starts much harder to control temp when it starts to rapidly ferment. cooler the better for rose don't want those strong tannins and harsher alcohol flavor

 

[Obelix]

Thanks, tried that 2 years ago as I keep the Vat outside, and it was nearing 40C. (104F?).
But then I had 280L of mass and the freezed bottles did nothing.
Doing less wine now though. It may make a difference.
Having said that, I may press it after 24 hours, and move it inside.

So far everything seem to be supporting my conclusion.
No malo, and stop the fermentation early. Maybe add some acid.

 

[Paulie vino]

This probably isn't under your control, but I believe grapes for rose are picked earlier at lower brix levels so they have more acid. Id follow the rest of the advice given so far about no more and maybe another yeast choice. You can try to add acid back in and see if that's better.

 

[Obelix]

Just checked the ph.
It shows around 4.5...way too high.

 

[Obelix]

Cheers Paulie.
The BRIX was 21-22. Not overly high. Should it be less?
I can tell the grower to tell me when the BRIX is of a particular level.

 

[winechef]

If the ph is high during fermentation sometimes off gasses give misleading. if you checked before fermentation and was normal range wait for fermentation to finish. then adjust ph later

 

[VinesnBines]

I think rose makers will treat the grapes (depending on variety) like white grapes and press with just a few hours of skin contact. Then aging is like white wines with bottling after just a few months. I listened to a webinar where a Nothern US winery said they harvested for Rose around the first of November and had the bottled cases out the door by February 1.

 

[Obelix]

I may have it left in the bulk storage for too long.