''natural'' wine, as a test?

[Scooter68]

Air space during the initial fermentation is fine, helps avoid a foam fountain if the yeast and juice really go wild. Just cover the jug with a cloth and tie a string around to keep out fruit flies and other unwanted things.
Skins should provide tannin and harbor wild yeast which can be great for a truly natural ferment. . I think for a first time effort a packet of wine yeast is a safer and more reliable with to get it started. I would just rinse them well and destem them. The typical dry wine yeast packet is enough for 5 gallons of wine so go easy with it. If you are a bread maker then you know about yeast starters, they really help a wine ferment, in my opinion.

That last thing is something I almost forgot, Wine yeast needs nutrient or it can produce some wicked off smells and gasses so if you are going to order your yeast you might invest in a small bottle of Yeast nutrient and a small amount of Potassium Metabisulfate. (K-Meta powder) That last item can be use to sanitize bottles and equipment as well as to treat the wine juice about 24 to 36 hours before you add the yeast. (Helps get rid or stun wild yeast and kill off unwanted bacteria from the wine. So the K-meta powder is very useful. Also used to treat wine while it's aging but I suspect your wine won't get much age on it before it's consumed.

I've yet to make a wine from grapes, All my wines are fruit based, Blueberry, Blackberry, Black Raspberry, Peach, Black Currant, Apple, and Tart Cherry. Peach is most definitely one of my favorites. If you get the urge to try to do some other wines in small quantity, it's a lot of fun and the smell of an active ferment is almost as intoxicating as the wine itself, or fresh bread. Sourcing fruit can be sort of fun since you only need about 5-7 lbs of most of the fruits mentioned to get a gallon of wine. Local fruit stands seem happy to find someone willing to take their overripe fruits and those are the best one for wine.

Better finish my project for the day - re-securing the fencing/netting around my blueberries - local Racoon thinks he's entitled to raid the patch. He's already broken several branches on one of my most productive bushes.

 

[susieqz]

m, yeast neutrient is sugar.
either refined or found in flour or fruit.
as far as i know yeast only eats sugars.
why buy ''nutrient''?
i sure miss blueberries. i always had them up north. here, the soil is so alkaline they can only be pot grown.
so, i settle for figs n grapes.

 

[Scooter68]

The term nutrient is a bit misleading perhaps in the case of yeast nutrient for wine and beer the following is what is most commonly in what we use: A mixture of diammonium phosphate and food-grade urea that nourishes yeast, ensuring that it remains healthy throughout fermentation. .

Yes, our soil here in Arkansas requires a lot of acidification to support blueberries. I use a lot of sulfur chips and mulch with pine needles. For fertilizer I use Azalea fertilizer for acid loving plants.

 

[susieqz]

scooter, i'm sure the stuff works if you recommend it, but urea?
that's pee!
eeewwww
yuck!

 

[balatonwine]

i have a nice grape vine, but the mother was mislabled. it was supposed to be cabernet sauvignon, but it's not.
i have no way to learn the variety.
what i know is, it's vigorous n very prolific. it has adapted to the highly alkaline soil n wild temperature swings of the high plains.

i have room for another 3 or 4 vines, which i could start from cuttings of my plant.

First, could you post some photos of the leaves and grape clusters? And later of the grapes as the change color? This may help ID the vine variety.

Second, if your area has phylloxera, and if if this is a vinifera vine, you do not want to start new ones from cuttings. You should plant grafted vines.

Third, I would not do a "natural" wine in your kitchen without adding some known wine making yeast. The reason is, most so called "natural" wines are inoculated during the crush in the winery which has, over many years, built up feral yeasts that actually produce a good wine. You don't want bread yeast to make the bulk of your wine. If you do not want to add potassium metabisulfite, at least a packet of wine making yeast into the must at the start will help outnumber the other yeasts and should help you get a more drinkable wine.

 

[susieqz]

thanks, bal.
i'll get a new memory card for my ca n get some pics.
i may not be in an infected area, but i'm not finding
good maps on philloxera.
does the health n vigor of my plant tell me i have no pests?
it was a cutting.
i'll look at grafted plants, but the ph here is over 8.
soil is limestone sand n gravel, which is not hospitable.
i doubt most grapes will grow here.

 

[Scooter68]

BUT, it's food grade pee.

There are a variety of Yeast Nutrient mixes out there. That was just one of the most common package descriptions I saw.


By the way at the risk of insulting an experienced gardener, here is a link to a VERY interesting article of what soils are best for wines. "The answer may surprise you." (It explains why this area of NW Arkansas grows some very good wine.)

https://winefolly.com/review/introduction-soil-types-wine/

And one more:

https://vinepair.com/wine-blog/why-does-bad-soil-make-for-great-wine/

 

[susieqz]

thanks, scooter, i love reading articles like that.
looks like i need much more research tho.
the first article says limestone can produce good wine, but in other places i read grapes prefer ph of 6.8 or so.
both can't be right, unless you accept the idea that it's good for vines to struggle.
do you believe that just any variety can thrive when the ph is over 8?
i was thinking i had an exceptional variety, but if that's not so i could buy potted vines n knock a year off time to fruiting.
i've looked at my protected garden n i can fit 4 more vines, which could yield all the wine i'd ever need, if they are as prolific as my unknown
the grapes are getting bigger n i'll for sure get a full bushel, even after my thinning.
i was hoping just to produce young wine, but if i had a shot at a bordeaux, i'd jump at it.
i really only buy from the bordeaux region n from champagne [dated]
i did have some ok chardonnay from ny, but that's it for this contenent, tho i never tried any from your area.

 

[Scooter68]

From what I ready grape vines are far less particular than blueberries or some other plants that simply die if their soil conditions are 'within' their ideal range. Those article seem to suggest that a struggling grape vine produces better grapes, Maybe it's their survival technique. Just as some wild animals seem to bear more young when they are living in dangerous conditions. So go out and talk tough to that grape vine, and maybe it will exceed your expectations.

 

[jburtner]

i do have regular wine bottles i can empty, if so.

The practice of regularly emptying wine bottles is recommended

Good luck!
-johann

 

[susieqz]

is making fruit wine significantly different from grape wine?
i do have 7 fig trees with great fruit.

 

[Scooter68]

There are several differences, primarily because most fruit lacks:
Enough sugar to produce at least 10% alcohol
Little to no Tannin - that dry taste on the tongue
In some cases additional water is needed to avoid having a pudding or paste filled fermentation container.

As to the question about figs. Here is a link to a site operated by Jack Keller. Very well known in home-winemaking circles. The only issue I have seen about his recipes is that they need more fruit in them - for example in his blueberry wine recipe he recommends 2 lbs of blueberries and 1 lb of raisins. I use about 6 lbs of blueberries and no raisins. Otherwise the basics of his wine recipes are a great starting point to get all the right ingredients in there.

http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/reques6.asp

 

[balatonwine]

Those article seem to suggest that a struggling grape vine produces better grapes

This is pretty much "established", in European thinking, from many, many centuries of wine making and comparison tasting. At least for vinifera. Ideally, one wants to find the "sweet spot" of vine struggle and vine health to maintain a long term vineyard while maximizing quality. But really harsh years, often produce the best wines (and lowest harvests -- ego less income for the farmers despite the benefit for the wineries).

Hybrid varieties may be different. Despite decades of many hybrids being on the market, still too "soon", IMHO, to call that.

 

[susieqz]

scooter, i'm surprised that fig wine needs added sugar.
figs are sweeter than grapes, to my taste.
i'll have to study this.
bal, i should be able to report how grapes taste in a hostile environment.
the vine is vigorous tho.
it has adapted to the high ph.
plus, as usual, we are experiencing drought, but this vine seems to have roots deep enow to have found water.

 

[susieqz]

scooter, what size paint straining bags are easiest to use?
amazon has 1 gal n 5 gal.

 

[Scooter68]

Won't hurt to get the 5 gallon one, depending on how many lbs of grapes you want to use for the first batch, a 1 gallon might be a bit tight for a lot of grapes.

What I "Believe" happens with some fruit in drought or low water conditions is that the fruit is smaller but has the same amount of sugar that it would per grape when their is plenty of water. That would be good for wine making because your sugar content for a given amount of must (juice) is higher.

Sounds like you have a 'happy' grape vine.

 

[susieqz]

scooter, i put grapes in the bag then mash with potato masher?
with figs, your idea works. too much rain at ripening gives you watery, bland, figs.

i'll be pressing lots of grapes. i just ordered 12 pint jars to make jelly.

 

[Scooter68]

Yes, fruit in the bags. I try to re-use mine but sometimes the get torn or holes in them. Cost of making wine...

Is there Lowe's, or Home Depot within a reasonable distance?? Lowe's 2 pack of 5 Gallon bags show at $3.78
Home Depot $3.97 for a 2 pack but a discount if you buy 4 pkgs.

 

[Stressbaby]

scooter, i'm surprised that fig wine needs added sugar.
figs are sweeter than grapes, to my taste.
i'll have to study this.

True. You have to add some water otherwise your trying to ferment the center of a Fig Newton. Adding water requires adding sugar.

Made it once, probably never again.

 

[JohnT]

Keep your vines poor and they will make you rich!