New to Cider

[RolandD]

You will maximize apple flavor by back sweetening with frozen 100% apple concentrate, along with a dose of potassium sorbate.

Dose first with Potassium Metabisulfite, wait twelve hours, then dose with Potassium Sorbate, wait twelve more hours, then sweeten.

 

[Tom914-6]

Ok guys on a different subject do you put your fruit in a bag or let it mix with the ingredients? I put my peach in a bag but now I am having second thoughts. It's been down less than two days. I just put the yeast in yesterday.

 

[Tom914-6]

I add nutrient to all wines.

I have some cider I am going to make that is going straight into a carboy. I do plan on putting in yeast should I also put in yeast nutrient? It sounds like I should?

 

[Tom914-6]

You will maximize apple flavor by back sweetening with frozen 100% apple concentrate, along with a dose of potassium sorbate.

I would assume that would work with grape wine also? We have grape juice that was made from the same grapes as we are making wine with?

 

[Tom914-6]

Welcome back!

So, your mental image of the role of sugar and the eventual sweetness seems to me to be a bit off. Let me explain.

When you add sugar, you are increasing the eventual alcohol content. In general (for a home winemaker), all of the sugar that you add before fermentation will be converted to alcohol, and your cider or wine will be dry (meaning, no sugar left). It will not be sweet. You add as much sugar as you want in order to achieve a desired amount of alcohol (known as ABV).

To get a sweet final beverage, you must "backsweeten." This means that, after fermentation is finished, you "stabilize" the cider/wine by adding potassium metabisulfite (i.e., Campden tablet) and potasium sorbate. (Potassium sorbate prevents the yeast that are in your cider from multiplying.) Then you can add sugar to make it as sweet as you prefer, and that sugar will not be fermented into alcohol.

BTW, the tool to measure the specific gravity is called a "hydrometer," not barometer.

Why do you need to know the specific gravity? Is that also true on hard cider?

 

[sour_grapes]

You need to know the beginning specific gravity in order to know the ABV of the final product. You need to know the final specific gravity in order to know if your cider is finished fermenting.

 

[winemaker81]

Ok guys on a different subject do you put your fruit in a bag or let it mix with the ingredients?

I've done both and can't say one makes better wine than the other. Having the fruit in a bag makes taking SG readings easier.

I do plan on putting in yeast should I also put in yeast nutrient?

It's in your best interest to provide the yeast with the best growing environment, so yes, add nutrient.

I would assume that would work with grape wine also? We have grape juice that was made from the same grapes as we are making wine with?

You can backsweeten wine with anything you want. Using the same juice as you made wine from is called "pourback" and is fairly common.

Be cautious of using artificial sweeteners, as they can produce some odd and not-necessarily-pleasing flavors.

It's a good idea to test the sweetener in a glass to ensure you like the result, before sweetening the entire batch. This is less of a concern if using a product such as honey, table sugar, or the same juice as the wine.

Keep in mind that it's MUCH easier to add things to your wine than it is to take them out.

 

[RolandD]

Ok guys on a different subject do you put your fruit in a bag or let it mix with the ingredients? I put my peach in a bag but now I am having second thoughts. It's been down less than two days. I just put the yeast in yesterday.

I bought a strainer bag for my Fermonster, but it's not really big enough for three pounds of fruit and it just floats on top. After trying it once, I've been running the fruit through an old juicer and dumping the juice and pulp right into the fermenter. With my most recent batch, I found that the blueberry pulp and skins got sucked right up into the siphon and on into the keg. I'm now thinking about getting some 5 gal paint strainer bags to line my Fermonster when I pitch and pull the pulp and skins a few days prior to racking to secondary.

 

[Tom914-6]

I bought a strainer bag for my Fermonster, but it's not really big enough for three pounds of fruit and it just floats on top. After trying it once, I've been running the fruit through an old juicer and dumping the juice and pulp right into the fermenter. With my most recent batch, I found that the blueberry pulp and skins got sucked right up into the siphon and on into the keg. I'm now thinking about getting some 5 gal paint strainer bags to line my Fermonster when I pitch and pull the pulp and skins a few days prior to racking to secondary.

Mine is peach and it just seemed easier to do. We will see how it makes out.

 

[Rice_Guy]

Why do you need to know the specific gravity? Is that also true on hard cider?

* specific gravity is like a speedometer, you don’t really need it but sometimes it is nice to know where you are going. For anyone who is commercial, one pays tax based on the alcohol and the legally required label is approved with a 5% variable so you would really need a way to get that number. For a newbie one could say the gravity is “dry” and not changing so it is done.
* traditional cider was done without a gravity reading and if the goal is roughly 5 or 5.5% alcohol by volume, yes there are tax and being finished implications.

 

[Tom914-6]

* specific gravity is like a speedometer, you don’t really need it but sometimes it is nice to know where you are going. For anyone who is commercial, one pays tax based on the alcohol and the legally required label is approved with a 5% variable so you would really need a way to get that number. For a newbie one could say the gravity is “dry” and not changing so it is done.
* traditional cider was done without a gravity reading and if the goal is roughly 5 or 5.5% alcohol by volume, yes there are tax and being finished implications.

I didn't check my peach wine but do intend on checking my cider. I would like better than 5 % but don't want a harsh taste. I have had home made cider I swore the person put a bottle of liquor in. He denied it and got mad at me over it. I have also had hard cider that had a tinge of sweetness to it did not taste like a bottle of liquor was dumped in it and it would knock your socks off. Even though the person who got mad at me, I was drinking hard cider before he thought about making it and it tasted like cider not not Jack Daniels.

 

[Rice_Guy]

general rules; a low temp ferment will have more fruity notes, CO2 will give bitter notes so you can degas to reduce, sugar masks bitter therefore sparkling wines and cider have a good slug of sugar, stinky sulphur (meaty notes) masks fruity notes so watch H2S, alcohol gives a sweet taste not bitter, acetaldehyde (oxidized ethyl alcohol) gives a burn in the back of the throat so keep the air out, malic acid (apple acid) gives a sharp acid/ harsher flavor so one variable is the mix of apples used, tannic apples are in a traditional cider which produces long bitter notes (to me it is a better tasting tannin than grape or chestnut from the wine shop), my source of tannin/ flavor complexity is 1% crab apples, (I will wait five years for my cider apple to start producing) and I am mixing this into lots of things as rhubarb to give a long memorable flavor note

I didn't check my peach wine but do intend on checking my cider. I would like better than 5 % but don't want a harsh taste. I have had home made cider I swore the person put a bottle of liquor in. He denied it and got mad at me over it. I have also had hard cider that had a tinge of sweetness to it did not taste like a bottle of liquor was dumped in it and it would knock your socks off. Even though the person who got mad at me, I was drinking hard cider before he thought about making it and it tasted like cider not not Jack Daniels.

PM me if you would like a sample of prarie fire crabapple, it is picking season

 

[Tom914-6]

general rules; a low temp ferment will have more fruity notes, CO2 will give bitter notes so you can degas to reduce, sugar masks bitter therefore sparkling wines and cider have a good slug of sugar, stinky sulphur (meaty notes) masks fruity notes so watch H2S, alcohol gives a sweet taste not bitter, acetaldehyde (oxidized ethyl alcohol) gives a burn in the back of the throat so keep the air out, malic acid (apple acid) gives a sharp acid/ harsher flavor so one variable is the mix of apples used, tannic apples are in a traditional cider which produces long bitter notes (to me it is a better tasting tannin than grape or chestnut from the wine shop), my source of tannin/ flavor complexity is 1% crab apples, (I will wait five years for my cider apple to start producing) and I am mixing this into lots of things as rhubarb to give a long memorable flavor note

PM me if you would like a sample of prarie fire crabapple, it is picking season

How low is low temperature? I thought 65 was the lowest to keep it fermenting? As far as the mix of apples, my cider maker doesn't share his recipe but he told me uses 13 different apple varieties to make his juice. It is by far the best apple cider I have ever tasted. It is also non pasteurized. I made it once with a fresh barrel and used corn sugar for alcohol. The reason corn sugar is because I wanted to use what they would have used 100 years ago. I also made small batches with honey. This time I am using white sugar only. I noticed a lot of the old timers I will call them that had crab apples. I always thought it was only for jelly and jam? The wife wants to plant crab apples I just didn't see a need? You won't tap the barrel for 5 years?