new welding kit advice

[Ajmassa]

winemakers are a crafty and versatile group so i wanted to seek some advice.

i want to purchase a welding kit for home shop use, repairs, and different little fabrication projects but my knowledge is extremely limited. When i started to look into this for a “homeowner friendly” type of kit i realized there’s a lot i don’t know.

I am a carpenter by trade. But back when i served my apprenticeship we did have a few welding classes with the oxy/acetylene torch & stick welding. a lot of guys struggled but i picked it up nicely. That’s the extent of my experience. 17 yrs ago.

so if anyone’s familiar with the differences between flux and stick welding, would love to hear your thoughts/recommendations. i don’t care about cutters. i’ll just use saws & grinders for that. But i would like to be able to weld multiple types of metal, stainless steel included.

 

[toadie]

Not a welder but brazing (with a torch) is generally not as useful as welding. Oxy/acetylene is super useful for cutting and heating things but stick welding is the way to go. 8011 rods are the general purpose go to (I think I have the number right). That said I have used a mig welder lately and that might be the way to go for a diyer. Also plasma cutter is on my wish list and might be used instead of a torch tho I don't have any experience with one.

Funny story. My dad is a millwright. At his brothers funeral his small talk revolved around not understanding how people could live without a welder. His somewhat stylish sister took a look at his shoes, which were dirty, and said I don't know how anyone could live without a shoe brush. The conversation ended but I think they both might have had good points.

 

[Ajmassa]

Not a welder but brazing (with a torch) is generally not as useful as welding. Oxy/acetylene is super useful for cutting and heating things but stick welding is the way to go. 8011 rods are the general purpose go to (I think I have the number right). That said I have used a mig welder lately and that might be the way to go for a diyer. Also plasma cutter is on my wish list and might be used instead of a torch tho I don't have any experience with one.

Funny story. My dad is a millwright. At his brothers funeral his small talk revolved around not understanding how people could live without a welder. His somewhat stylish sister took a look at his shoes, which were dirty, and said I don't know how anyone could live without a shoe brush. The conversation ended but I think they both might have had good points.

hmmm. so brazing allows the joining of 2 different metals together im seeing. whereas welding this isn’t really typical or easy. why do you think wouldn’t that be more useful than standard stick welding?

also appreciate that story about your father lol.

 

[toadie]

I will defer to professionals in this area but brazing is more about bonding things like brass and copper whereas welding is more about bonding iron to iron.

If you are trying to make a fancy trellis or fixing a trailer it seems to me a welder is the way to go. Also turn that thing up and you can cut stuff by melting it. One downfall is that you need 220, but that seems reasonable to me.

 

[Ajmassa]

I will defer to professionals in this area but brazing is more about bonding things like brass and copper whereas welding is more about bonding iron to iron.

If you are trying to make a fancy trellis or fixing a trailer it seems to me a welder is the way to go. Also turn that thing up and you can cut stuff by melting it. One downfall is that you need 220, but that seems reasonable to me.

honestly i don’t have many specific use cases in mind just yet except one project, but i know that’ll change once i jump in. I want to modify a stainless steel cart i’ve got, along with my SS crusher/destemmer shoot & stand and the crusher/destemmer itself to build a custom mobile setup to my needs.

requires some cutting and welding. did some more digging and check this one out.

it’s a plasma, TIG, and stick 3in1 combo unit for medium duty homeowner type stuff.
https://amzn.to/3vqjyku
found on this blog of tool reviews
https://comfortworkboots.com/best-plasma-cutters-with-tig-stick-welder-combo-options/

 

[toadie]

I was wondering if you wanted to do stainless. I think you are never going to be happy with the results and it might be better to find a local shop. If you don't care about looks go for it. It is a specialty, you need different temps and different rods. That said the combo might be fun to use. Tig sounds like fun plus I believe it uses argon which you could also use to fill air space in carboys.

 

[sour_grapes]

From my vantage point, it is weird that you post this today!

I have always been a welder "dilletante." I have used oxy/acetylene in the past. I broke down a few years ago and bought a MIG unit. This is nice, in that it is sort of a "hot glue gun for metal" within certain parameter restrictions. However, just today, I was thinking that I should break down and buy a TIG welder (in my retirement )

AFAIK, you cannot do much with stainless other than with TIG. So, if SS is a requirement, go TIG.

 

[Ajmassa]

. I think you are never going to be happy with the results and it might be better to find a local shop.

NEVER!! I could never/would never have someone else make that. I don’t care about sloppy welds or jagged cuts— that could be cleaned up after the fact. And it’s not something very important so i don’t care how long it would take either.

tooling up and figuring it all out myself is a large part of the reason why i want to do it. And this combo plasma cutter/stick welder/TIG welder (or another similar kit) is screaming my name!

 

[sour_grapes]

BTW, I am old enough that at one time there was no such thing as "TIG." It was called "Heli-arc." The term "TIG" came later (that is, if I recall correctly!).

 

[sour_grapes]

I don’t care about sloppy welds or jagged cuts— that could be cleaned up after the fact. And it’s not something very important so i don’t care how long it would take either.

It depends on what you are doing! A jagged weld on something structural is fine. A poor weld on something that needs to be hermetically sealed is another matter!

 

[toadie]

Yeah never is a little strong! I would do exactly what you are doing but practice a lot on other stuff first. Ironically the uncle who passed away in the previous story was a fancy welder. From what I understand he mostly did stainless welding of tanker trucks and factory stuff. Kind of a specialty in a specialty.

 

[DaveMcC]

The big box outlets (Home Depot, Lowes, Tractor Supply, Northern Tool) all sell smaller wire feed arc welders (MIG if you use a CO2/Argon mix, known as C25 gas) or without gas a "flux core" wire. They are not very hard to learn and master and run off of 120 VAC current. Dialing in the right feed rate for the wire and setting the appropriate current for your project are about the hardest thing. Use one around our farm property all the time. They are good for smaller projects, angle steel, small plate steel, welding a nut to an angle iron to make a threaded connection. That sort of thing.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I do see where they are selling MiG/TIG /stick combo welders - here's a nice one for a decent price = Lincoln Electric 140 Amp LE31MP Multi-Process Stick/MIG/TIG Welder with Magnum Pro 100L Gun, MIG and Flux-Cored Wire, Single Phase, 120V-K3461-1 - The Home Depot

 

[Cynewulf]

My brother does all his own welding and said he’s been happy with this Eastwood for home use: MIG Welder 110VAC/ 135A Output. Said he’s never welded flux core with it but mig is going to outperform flux and the tanks are reasonably inexpensive. I was visiting last week and was really impressed with his house project where he took out the interior wall between the stairwell and living room and replaced it with this metal railing system he fabricated that will eventually be topped by a walnut hand rail:

 

[DaveMcC]

I like that Eastwood unit. You can do a lot of projects around the home with welders of that size.

 

[scruff_farrier]

So I'll jump in a little here. I am a true DIY-er and like to tinker. Everyone has very good points. Also this is one of those things that is true with crap in and crap + frustration out. I was raised using a stick welder and "farmer" 7011 rod. It is the "general purpose rod". It's not great at anything, but not truly bad at anything either. It's fairly cheap and you can get "bubble gum welds" that's were it looks like a hunk of chewing gum on the metal but will normally hold anything on anything. Almost out of the box to with no experience, I had my 15 year old niece weld with it the other day. That being said, it is possible to weld with stick in thin melt, not easy or convenient but is possible. It's mainly for thicker metal. It's a little less expensive and you could probably find a older farmer stick welder on craigslist for around a 100 that would last you years of use. Rods a easy to get once you get the hang and do a little research on what type and thickness of rod to use. Now Mig is another beast generally they can be used for thicker metal, but are great for sheet metal type things. it tends to be more expensive and a little more fustrating because of the set up and learning curve. Wire feed problems and the use of flux core wire can be enough to make you want to throw the stupid thing out of the garage, let me tell you how I know. You can buy a cheap mig welder from harbor freight, really they aren't terrible and for DIY you don't need a Lincoln or big name. But I know from experience it takes a while to learn how to set it up and get even passible results. But mig is very easy to upgrade once you get the hang of it. You can buy a tank with welding gas, everyone has a opinion but I use straight argon and with that upgrade to solid core wire to, which almost...almost eliminates wire feed problems. It becomes like someone said almost a hot glue gun for metal. When ever I talk to someone trying to pick up welding I always suggest a stick welder first because it's cheap and not nearly as fustrating to learn, but then you will want a mig eventually so it tends to be a question of the person's demeanor on how stubborn they will be in learning it. I am not a professional welder and most of my welds tend to be bubble gum welds, haha. But I just did tack together a cultivator for the garden the other day and it didn't break a weld in the acre of dirt I dragged. Just my opinion in things. Hope my rambling will help you gleam a little more info on top of everyone elses suggestions.

 

[CDrew]

I've been a hobby welder for 20 years. Its hard to give specific advice, but I'll give you a few observations. The best money you can spend it to take a welding course or three at the local JC. It's really helpful.

You probably will not be welding stainless. That's TIG territory and requires more stuff. Different welder, different gas and a different skill set. You can do some stainless with a spool gun on a MIG unit, but it won't look good.

A MIG unit will be what you want. And you'll want a 220v machine. I am not a huge fan of flux core unless out in the wild, so you'll need a gas cylinder too. But flux core is great for out in the field repairs where you need to weld uncleaned metal in the wind or what ever. I've welded a truck frame at 10,000 feet in a freezing cold wind and flux core is what works. It just isn't pretty.

If you are serious, you'll want a good welder from Miller or Lincoln (Or Hobart which is Miller's second line). Spare parts for decades, consumables everywhere etc. There are tons of other welders out there, but Miller (my choice) or Lincoln are what you want. Miller is just slightly better made (metal drive gears) and darn near bullet proof. But it's a Ford vs Chevy thing. I would not buy a welder at Home Depot. These are cheaper units built to a price point and not what you want. I have a slight preference for transformer based welders vs a rectifier based welder, but they both work. Miller's "auto-set" feature actually works so there's that. I have a 15 year old Miller 210 which has been great and perfect (It's modern equivalent is the 252). If the 210 ever dies I'll get a 252.

Remember, you need way more than just the welder. You need a welding helmet, and you'll want an autodarkening one. They are much easier to use. I've got a great Miller auto-dark one for home use, but for off road trips I take the much cheaper Harbor Freight auto-dark helmet which works pretty well. These cost about $60 and I replace every 2 years, but they do work. You also need metal working tools. You'll want 3 angle grinders minimum. One with a cutting disc, one with a grinding disc, and one with a cup brush. You'll probably also want a chop saw with a cutting disc, and when that makes you crazy you'll want a plasma cutter (trust me, you will want one immediately). You also need protective gear like leathers. When welding you don't want any exposed skin, because the UV light will give you a really bad sunburn.

Anyway, it's a slippery slope. To do it well, you need a lot of expensive gear. I'd look on Craigslist. Find a good welder with a gas bottle and a cart. The cart is important. Welder and gas cylinder are heavy and awkward, so a cart is key. The old school rule was you bought a welder and the first project was to build your first cart. Still not a bad plan.

But before you spend any money, take a intro welding course at the local community college. They will have you welding with a buzz box stick welder the first night, and you'll learn instantly why that is such a pain. Good luck.

Edit: One other thing. Look carefully at duty cycle. Many cheaper welders have a 20-30% duty cycle, so you have to stop and let them cool off every few minutes. Look for a duty cycle in the 60% range or better.

 

[johnkelsall]

winemakers are a crafty and versatile group so i wanted to seek some advice.

i want to purchase a welding kit for home shop use, repairs, and different little fabrication projects but my knowledge is extremely limited. When i started to look into this for a “homeowner friendly” type of kit i realized there’s a lot i don’t know.

I am a carpenter by trade. But back when i served my apprenticeship we did have a few welding classes with the oxy/acetylene torch & stick welding. a lot of guys struggled but i picked it up nicely. That’s the extent of my experience. 17 yrs ago.

so if anyone’s familiar with the differences between flux and stick welding, would love to hear your thoughts/recommendations. i don’t care about cutters. i’ll just use saws & grinders for that. But i would like to be able to weld multiple types of metal, stainless steel included.

 

[johnkelsall]

Oxy and stick welding would show no benefit for stainless welding around the smaller and semi-commercial wineries. Tig and mig are the proven solid welding types for food-grade metalwork. Stick welding is best for your structural and support frameworks like catwalks and stairs. imo.

 

[mainshipfred]

I have torches, a mig and arc welder. I just can't get the hang of the mig although I don't spend much time trying to learn.