New Winexpert Kits

[sour_grapes]

I do know that reducing the total volume will increase the ABV. Overall if not controlled.

I am not following your thinking here, Joe? Can you explain why you say that? (I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you meant the total volume of the kit before reconstituting.)

 

[joeswine]

In some cases we've reduced wine kits by 1/2 gallon of volume. Totally. On cheaper kits.
On better kits $80 , to $110 just controlling the overall volume ( SG) to (ABV) is enough.
Top of the line kits, $145 to $200 , the volume of water to concentrate is marginal ,I usually don't add to the mix ,I just check the (SG) to the ( ABV,) with out my enhancements if any. Clearer?

 

[ali_emamy]

I agree with some comments above. I made about 20 batches of red wine in three years from the Winexperts / Cellar Craft premium kits. On average every year about 7-8 kits with different variety; Malbec, Stagg's Leaf Merlot, Barossa Valley Shiraz, Lodi Cab Sav, Pinot Noir, etc. In 2019 I stopped to make any more wine from kits, I realized all they are identical, only they pack them into a box with different name/label. Any one who tried the store Pinot Noir wine once, knows that the Pinot Noir color is light ruby and looks like raspberry, but all Winexpert red kits are same, no matter what the kit is. They are using the name of popular wine producing regions to sell their wine kits, isn't this a scam? Even the stores that I bought those kits from them, they confirmed this, obviously they never tell their customers the truth at first. I believe it's totally waste of time and money to make wine from kits.

 

[bstnh1]

In case anyone is interested in WineXpert's response to my email to them. Basically this is their PR position:

I wonder what magic reformulation they do to "improve flavor, color and aromatics"?????

 

[bstnh1]

I agree with some comments above. I made about 20 batches of red wine in three years from the Winexperts / Cellar Craft premium kits. On average every year about 7-8 kits with different variety; Malbec, Stagg's Leaf Merlot, Barossa Valley Shiraz, Lodi Cab Sav, Pinot Noir, etc. In 2019 I stopped to make any more wine from kits, I realized all they are identical, only they pack them into a box with different name/label. Any one who tried the store Pinot Noir wine once, knows that the Pinot Noir color is light ruby and looks like raspberry, but all Winexpert red kits are same, no matter what the kit is. They are using the name of popular wine producing regions to sell their wine kits, isn't this a scam? Even the stores that I bought those kits from them, they confirmed this, obviously they never tell their customers the truth at first. I believe it's totally waste of time and money to make wine from kits.

I respectfully disagree with your contention that all the red wine kits contain the same variety of juice. I too have made many of Winexpert's red kits. I find they are not all the same color nor the same color intensity, they don't all taste the same and they don't all age at the same rate. I doubt that Winexpert or any other kit manufacturer would put the same juice in all their red kits because of the liability issue alone.

 

[cmason1957]

I respectfully disagree with your contention that all the red wine kits contain the same variety of juice. I too have made many of Winexpert's red kits. I find they are not all the same color nor the same color intensity, they don't all taste the same and they don't all age at the same rate. I doubt that Winexpert or any other kit manufacturer would put the same juice in all their red kits because of the liability issue alone.

I'm pretty certain that if they say Merlot (as an example) they will contain at least 75% of Merlot juice, that's not to say it doesn't contain other juice, but the vast majority will be Merlot. Just the same as when you buy (at least in USA) Merlot by the bottle it only has to contain 75% of Merlot.

 

[jsbeckton]

I partially agree. I think that all of the WE Eclipse kits taste pretty similar but not exactly the same. I wonder if that varietal percentage isn’t lower than 75%.

 

[jbo_c]

I’m in the “they all taste similar” camp, but I do also believe they taste at least slightly different. I’m sure they likely have different juices. I have noticed, though, that more and more, the descriptions include the word “style” suggesting it really isn’t the named grape that’s foremost in the blend. I’m OK with that going in eyes wide opened.

I’ve also noted recently that my “high end” kits from RJS contain “grape juice, grape juice from concentrate, and grape juice concentrate”. So the increased volume of my higher volume kits may be from concentrate anyway. So why am I paying a premium for that? (This may go to the point of WE making their premium kits smaller in another thread.)

I’m not complaining. It’s just something I recently noticed. I won’t contest that there’s a difference in the bigger and smaller kits.

Jbo

 

[joeswine]

It's simple I think there not going to add as much water, I could be wrong.
I'm not sure what there content quantities are ,there's a lot of co op vineyard's out there that's probably where the juice comes from.all over the world. So yes Merlot, could be 100% or not.
Their content is different per kit per pricing range with blending wines involved.
For the kit makers out there if wines are made according to the MFG. Process and with a little planning can truly make a difference .
Just remember wine tasting like most things in life are all subjective to taste.and by the way most,not all but most Amature wine contest put all formats of winemaking up against each other straight up.
So don't short change the kits, I can tell you things about so called vineyard's and dreak most of them make or bucket juice that's cut by 1/3 before distribution.
Its all about what you like better ,taste, and the mood your in at the time

 

[jsbeckton]

It's simple I think there not going to add as much water, I could be wrong.

Are they “not adding as much water” or are the removing more to get the reduced volume? I know that some people feel that the water removal process is detrimental to the finished product so they would not find this comforting.

 

[kuziwk]

I agree with some comments above. I made about 20 batches of red wine in three years from the Winexperts / Cellar Craft premium kits. On average every year about 7-8 kits with different variety; Malbec, Stagg's Leaf Merlot, Barossa Valley Shiraz, Lodi Cab Sav, Pinot Noir, etc. In 2019 I stopped to make any more wine from kits, I realized all they are identical, only they pack them into a box with different name/label. Any one who tried the store Pinot Noir wine once, knows that the Pinot Noir color is light ruby and looks like raspberry, but all Winexpert red kits are same, no matter what the kit is. They are using the name of popular wine producing regions to sell their wine kits, isn't this a scam? Even the stores that I bought those kits from them, they confirmed this, obviously they never tell their customers the truth at first. I believe it's totally waste of time and money to make wine from kits.

I read a study Somewhere that many of the best wine tasters cannot tell the difference of different grapes used for wines...at least reliably enough to identify which grape were used. I would disagree with this statement about kits though, all my VineCo kits have unique characteristics and flavours. My in-laws even said the same thing about my kit wines and they are beer drinkers. I don’t know what wine you guys are drinking and how much you are spending but most of my kit wines are better than most $20 bottles in Canada. I’ve got very picky about commercial wines compared to the cellar craft showcase lineup.

 

[sremick]

I read a study Somewhere that many of the best wine tasters cannot tell the difference of different grapes used for wines...at least reliably enough to identify which grape were used.

I might disagree with this. I'm hardly anywhere near a "best wine taster" but I feel nearly certain that if you poured me glasses of cab, merlot, pinor noir, and tempranillo I could tell you which is which. I could probably pick out the malbec if you threw that into the mix.

 

[kuziwk]

I might disagree with this. I'm hardly anywhere near a "best wine taster" but I feel nearly certain that if you poured me glasses of cab, merlot, pinor noir, and tempranillo I could tell you which is which. I could probably pick out the malbec if you threw that into the mix.

I would say the same, but the reality is I admit when I’m wrong. Perhaps your taste buds are better than mine though. It’s also noteworthy that the older we get our taste buds don’t work as well, I’m only 28 where most of these critics are typically older. I sometimes have a hard time telling a cab sav from a Merlot...I’ve had some excellent merlots that are tannic and full that could easily pass for a cab sav.

here is one article.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis

 

[joeswine]

When we had our wine club we would do blind tasting all the time and the results were always the same know one with few exceptions what was what. After a while they started all tasting alike. sometimes wine makers over load the grape with oak to a point where your sucking on a log, to them that's good wine.its all subjective .

 

[kuziwk]

When we had our wine club we would do blind tasting all the time and the results were always the same know one with few exceptions what was what. After a while they started all tasting alike. sometimes wine makers over load the grape with oak to a point where your sucking on a log, to them that's good wine.its all subjective .

I’ve had the same findings with experienced wine drinkers. Furthermore, what kind of wine are forum members drinking on a regular basis thats better than some of the best kits? my parents drink 150 dollar bottles of wine, and they think the showcase kits were excellent. Obviously the $150 commercial wine is better, however “better” is subjective and you can’t compare a $6 A bottle kit wine to $150 bottles. I can’t afford $2000 a month for wine, so I enjoy my kit wines for what they are instead and choose not to compare them to the pinnacle of quality wine.

 

[bstnh1]

I’ve had the same findings with experienced wine drinkers. Furthermore, what kind of wine are forum members drinking on a regular basis thats better than some of the best kits? my parents drink 150 dollar bottles of wine, and they think the showcase kits were excellent. Obviously the $150 commercial wine is better, however “better” is subjective and you can’t compare a $6 A bottle kit wine to $150 bottles. I can’t afford $2000 a month for wine, so I enjoy my kit wines for what they are instead and choose not to compare them to the pinnacle of quality wine.

Lots of studies out there show that in blind tastings the average wine drinker actually prefers the cheaper wines. The so-called "experts" - those with some training - prefer the more expensive wines by a very slight margin.

 

[joeswine]

Does anyone remember how $2 buck Chuck get it's start?
Perfect example of a cheap wine making it big.

 

[Chuck E]

Does anyone remember how $2 buck Chuck get it's start?
Perfect example of a cheap wine making it big.

This is how $2 Chuck got it's start...
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/05/18/drink-up

 

[kuziwk]

Lots of studies out there show that in blind tastings the average wine drinker actually prefers the cheaper wines. The so-called "experts" - those with some training - prefer the more expensive wines by a very slight margin.

That’s probably true, my in laws who are not wine drinkers prefer my lower end kits to the higher end kits. That being said my parents are experienced wine drinkers, i actually tricked my dad since he originally was not a fan of my wines only because of the stigma of homemade wine. He is also a proponent of the more you spend the better the product, or more quality you get. He was asking what bottle it was after trying it as he really liked it, once i told him that it was one of mine he started complaining lol. I’m not saying i prefer the kit wines over better Commerical wines, I’m saying for what the kit wines are and what you pay...they are pretty damn good. Ive had $150 bottles of wine, they are excellent and in my opinion “Better”. However the high end kits offer a lot for what they cost aswell, i also cant afford to drink 15x $150 bottles of wine every month between my wife and I. I don’t feel that my quality of life is impacted by drinking wine kits over 150 dollar wine. I can think of a thousand other things to spend money on...

 

[jbo_c]

I’ve made kits across the spectrum and I’d compare any of them to. $4.00(US) bottle.

I tell people who ask about my hobby all the time: I can make better beer than I can buy. I make the wine because I enjoy having my own.

The only wine I’ve made that would compare favorably against your average commercial bottle was made from fresh grapes. I make kits because I enjoy the making and they’re passable for every day drinking.

Jbo