Newbie Needs Help

[Barney]

First of all, I would like to say hi to everyone and thank all of you for making this a great source for information. Second, I want to apologize if this goes long.
Needless to say, I am new to wine making and I have lots of questions. A few weeks ago I thought it might be fun to brew my own beer, since that is my beverage of choice and started doing research. After a few days of surfing the net, I decided that wine making appealed to me since it can be made form things that are grown locally. So, to start with I found instructions for Welch's, "Balloon" wine. Plastic gallon water jug, juice, sugar and yeast. Followed instructions and within an hour my batch was fermenting and it was very active for six days before it slowed down. At that point I got excited and decided to refine the "balloon" process and racked the wine in to actual wine bottles. The next day I called George and placed an order for better equipment.
Once everything arrived I tried to start an apple wine from a recipe off of this site. I followed the recipe and added everything to my fermenting bucket. Adding all the new chemicals that I purchased for the recipe. Three days passed and fermentation never started, so I poured it out. Then, just to see what would happen, I took another shot at the apple recipe only this time I used the "balloon" method, but I used a glass carboy, bung stop and airlock instead of the plastic jug and balloon. All I did was add the juice, dissolve my sugar in water, add it, pour in the yeast (no other chemicals)and shake. In about an hour fermentation started and it has been active for several days now.
So...
What did I do wrong with the first batch of apple. The only difference was the additional chemicals that the recipe called for and I used a bucket instead of the jug.
As a side note, I am cleaning and sanitizing everything before use.
Your help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wade E]

What size batch was it that failed, what chems did you use and how much
of them? What yeast did you use? Some yeasts take 3 days to start.
Before you dump any more batches please ask here first because we can
save just about any batch there is. My guess is either you used Cotes
Des Blanc yeast which is a good yeast but really takes a little longer
to get started or possibly over sulfited the batch which can be
remedied sometimes depending on how much was added. Was all the
equipment sanitized? What is the temp at start and constant. Do you use
a hydrometer? As you can see there are a lot of things that can go
wrong but almost all of them can be fixed before a batch goes bad.
Welcome Barney and we would like to help make you a successful
winemaker. Glad to have you here!

 

[Barney]

Wade,
Thanks for the reply.
I used the chemicals and amounts that the Apple Wine from Juice recipe off of this site called for. I tried the full body recipe. The one thing that I did alter was the yeast. I used Lavin 71B-11225. Temp would be room temperature of about 70 - 75. I did take a reading with my hydrometer, but I can not remember sg, but the potential alcohol content was 10%. I did sanitize everything. Maybe, I was impatient.
Will the other wines that I have started without the additional chemicals turn out ok, or are the chemicals a must for good tasting wine.


Thanks again.

 

[smokegrub]

Did the juice contain preservatives? I had that happen to me.

 

[rshosted]

Barney,

Upon measuring ingredients you NEED to make sure that you use the correct amounts. It is very easy to use a little too much, especially of Potassium (camden) or Sorbate Metabisulphites. This will cause a 'stuck' fermentation, which is what you described.

Most likely, your fermentation was just slow, not stuck. Oftentimes the Camden/Potassium will cause this. But the yeast will overcome them if the proper amount is used. It just creates a 'safe' place for your yeast and prevents bad yeasts from starting.

The temp and sugar level sound right. If you plan to get into this you might read on "yeast starters". This will explain how to ensure yeast is working prior to adding it to juice.

Lastly, I would lose the gallon 'jug' and 'balloon'. They are very difficult to ensure good sanitation with. The container would not affect the growth of yeast. There had to be something else going on.

About adding "other chemicals" to make the wine taste good the answer is Yes and No. It really depends on what you are making wine from. If you are using 'fruit' (not vinifera grapes), it 'can' taste good without chemicals. Though, oftentimes by adding chemicals you can correct what some would call "flaws". Say for instance if acid is too low and the wine tastes "flabby" or by adding other things you can improve the 'look' of the wine.

Ultimately, keep notes on EVERY SINGLE OBSERVATION you make. Date, Time, temp, additions, subtractions, notes on fruit tastes, water used, chemicals used, EVERYTHING. Not only does this enusre you are more likely to not make a mistake, but it allows one to learn when they have a problem. And if you do have something that turns out well, you can reproduce it from your notes. I know I have had a couple of awesome wines from fruit and regret that I did not make notes on them. Since it was a year later that I tried them, I forgot the subtle things I did that made them so impressive.

Either way, you did what a good winemaker does. If one thing doesn't work, they climb back up on that horse and start again. Good job.

Welcome to an obsession.
Cheers,
Ryan

 

[Barney]

Thanks for all of the help so far!


Smokegrub, the juice contained no preservatives.


rshosted, I have lost the "balloon" and "jug". I ordered all the proper equipment from George. After your response, I am thinking it was the Campden.


Ok, more questions. I still have one batch that went six days in the primary and has now been ten days in the secondary and I have not seen any bubbles in three days. Is it time to rack again? Also, will it taste anything like wine at this early stage? I am dying to taste it.


George also sold me Potassium Sorbate to stabilize. At what point do I add that and will this make it safe to bottle without worry of the corks pushing out?


Thanks again.

 

[Wade E]

Barney, after adding the camden, did you wait at least 24 hours before
adding your yeast and yeast nutrient? By not doing this the camden will
kill or suspend the yeast from working.

 

[Mike777]

I'm a newbie, but I taste everything at every stage. Sometimes you burp a little yeast and CO2gas, later on.

Stick around here. George or these folks can get you the right steer on equipment and kits, and like my slightly sticky reisling they always come through with the right suggestions. Great group of folks!

 

[Barney]

I want to thank everyone for all of the help.


I am a bit embarrassed. Wade, you hit the nail on the head. I just thought that I followed the instructions. I did not wait the 24 hours before adding the yeast.


Ok, first problem solved.


Again, thanks to everyone.

 

[Wade E]

All you would of had to do is wait 24 hours and add another yeast
packet but live and learn right. When I first started I killed 2 6
gallon batches by over sulfiting when I changed from campden tablrtes
to k-meta powder and added I think 6 table spoons instead of 1/4 tsp
per 6 gallons. Oops! Had to dump them down the drain!

 

[grapeman]

Welcome Barney. You have seen first hand how people on this forum try to help each other. You have learned a valuable lesson already- not only do you need to use the right stuff, it needs to be used at the right time. One thing you might want to consider is getting a kit. They are valuable in that they have the juice you need to get a first rate wine, all the chemicals and additives you need and most importantly a step-by-step set of instructions to follow. They are pretty hard to mess up if you follow the directions. This will provide you with a foundation to work on and as you gain a little more experience then you can venture out into making all sorts of wine from kits, juice packs, canned fruit, fresh fruit and so on.


You can pick up some pretty good kits at a very reasonable price. Decide what you have to spend, call George and he can give you a good recommendation of a nice wine to start with in that price range. Remember you can always get advice here also.
Good luck Barney.

 

[Barney]

Appleman, thanks for the advice. I had initially decided that I did not want to make a kit, but it may be a good way to learn. My goal is to make good apple wine from fresh fruit. We have several orchards in the area. George did tell me that you are the man to talk to about apple wine.
Thanks,
Barney

 

[Wade E]

The Vintners fruit bases are pretty good to but require a little more
experience than the kits do. If you decide to do one of the Vinters
wine bases I recommend the Black Currant as everyone that has tried 1
has liked it.