Oak cube vs barrel

[dmmdtm]

So I'm new here. We were driving around back in August and stumbled on a brew and vint store and leaped in. Last week we bottled our first two batches (Lodi zin and a Barolo). We have a cab in our Vidal barrel, a petite sirah/zin waiting to fine, a port that just finished primary and a nebollo in the primary. Yes we fell hard!

So the nebollo had oak dust which I used. It also has cubes for carboy aging. I plan on giving it time in the Harrell so a, thinking of saving the cubes and maybe use them when the barrel goes neutral. Thoughts?

These forums have been an incredible source and it's been very helpful learning from all the wisdom you all share!

Derek

 

[JohnT]

It is all a matter of taste. Sample the wine to see if it is "oaky" enough for you. If not, then you could oak it at any point in time. I would just leave a good span of time between removing the oak cubes (when finished) and bottling. The oak cubes have a lot of carbon on their surface and you may want to allow for a racking before you bottle.

 

[Bartman]

I would just leave a good span of time between removing the oak cubes (when finished) and bottling. The oak cubes have a lot of carbon on their surface and you may want to allow for a racking before you bottle.

John, are you saying the oak cubes have a lot of 'dust' that comes off in the wine, relative to other oak materials? I haven't noticed that, but I may not have been paying attention, as I usually oak for a few months and figure that was just sediment dropping out.

I generally use oak spirals if I am purchasing the oak separately, but have used the oak cubes that come with kts many times. The oak spirals have very little dust now that I think about it, but if you are bulk aging for 6 months or more, it's hard to distinguish oak dust from other sediment.

 

[dmmdtm]

So it sounds like I'm on the right track. Set the oak cubes aside, oak in the barrel but don't do both.

 

[ibglowin]

Thats what I have been doing. Have a lot of cubes now and two Vadai's that are pretty neutral so I can now start using the cubes I have saved up. I usually did add oak sawdust to any kits that came with it. It definitely incorporates into the wine differently than cubes do (post fermentation).

 

[dmmdtm]

Mike - Thanks...That's exactly what I was hoping to hear...I have a fairly new Vidai (I think I'm at 4 weeks total use time so far) and once it gets to the 3rd or 4th batch, I think I'll add another. The only real challenge I see is to ensure I always have some batches ready in carboy's so that I never have to deal with the whole storing of an empty barrel hassle.
Do you test for SO2 or do anything other than what the kit gives you while you're barrel aging? I'm using campden before I bottle but so far nothing prior. I'm debating the addition of an SO2 tester but frankly, I'm not the chem wonk in the house so the higher end tester would be great but a bit more than I wanna spend at this point..

D.

 

[ibglowin]

If your using a barrel you HAVE to test for SO2 as these small barrels will eat up most of your free SO2 in just a matter of a few months. Get a Vinemetrica if your not a chemist as its the most "user friendly" tool at the moment.

Without an accurate way to test you have no idea where your SO2 levels are at.

 

[SpoiledRotten]

I've not done any oaking as of yet. If you don't mind me high-jacking slightly, what kind of oak is used and when you talk about using oak sawdust, am I thinking you simply cut an oak limb and throw the dust in the wine when it's fermenting?

 

[ibglowin]

No, some wine kits come with an oak sawdust of package as well as oak cubes or beans. It looks like it was toasted as its a dark color of red and not white at all.

 

[Noontime]

Spoiled- to add to the previous response...oak (for winemaking) comes in a few forms; dust, chips, cubes (or beans), stakes and sticks, and barrels. They come in different toast levels for different effects on the wine. They're made from the same wood the barrels are, but the different kinds have lesser or greater surface area. So dust and chips have huge surface area and release everything quickly, while larger sticks and barrels release slowly. The cubes are great because you can blend different toasts for exactly what you want and add some slowly and add more if needed. The dust and chips are usually used during fermentation.

 

[tonyt]

Thats what I have been doing. Have a lot of cubes now and two Vadai's that are pretty neutral so I can now start using the cubes I have saved up. I usually did add oak sawdust to any kits that came with it. It definitely incorporates into the wine differently than cubes do (post fermentation).

Yep, I'm in about the same spot as Mike with my one barrel being neutral. Difference being (I believe) that I only barrel age for 3 months and another 3 months in glass carboy. I do my oaking in the glass carboy thinking that is is easier to retrieve cubes from the carboy at racking than shaking them out of the empty barrel. In the glass I can see that they are all out.

 

[eblasmn9]

Tony,

I am curious why 3 months in the neutral barrel? Is this a good amount of time for micro-oxygenation to occur. I just purchased a Vadai barrel and looked over the schedule mike(ibglowin) posted for keeping wine in a new barrel. I am just not sure how long people keep their wine in the barrel and on oak cubes, staves etc. when it is neutral.

Earl

 

[tonyt]

I read somewhere that 3-4 months in the small barrel was an acceptable amount of time for MO. Plus I usually add k-meta every three months. So three months in glass and three months in barrel works for me. Sometimes a batch goes back into glass for another 3 months after barrel aging. That makes my wine about 7 to 10 months old counting clearing for 3 to 4 weeks. We all seem to settle into a pattern that works for each of us. I actually have my barrel scheduled out three or four batches at a time. I know now that the MMM Amarone that I won't have till next year will go in the barrel next April.

 

[eblasmn9]

Thanks Tony. Your process makes sense to me and once again you have given me something I can use. The information that continues to be given on this board is fantastic.

 

[Sacalait]

Oak is not the only wood used to enhance the flavor of Wine just the most traditional. I plan to toast pecan hulls for the next batch, especially for blackberry, which is ,I think most receptive fruit wine for flavor enhancement of wood. Jack Keller has also used mesquite... Among others.

 

[FRANKC]

Hi all and happy new year. I currently have some three month old brunello from fresh juice that is bulk aging in glass, waiting to go into my new 40liter Vadai. I'll start prepping the barrel tomorrow. I also have an Argentine Malbec kit that just finished primary fermentation, SG at 0.996, and really quite clear. I don't plan on using any fining agents. I'm considering putting the Malbec in the barrel first, but I'm concerned that it might be too soon. I plan on bulk aging in glass after the barrel, for at least six months before bottling. Any thoughts?