peach wine

[joeswine]

Thinking outside the box

Although you can consider me somewhat of a conventional person in the wine making field, I tend to think outside the box, I tend to experiment a lot and then use what works for me. That doesn't make it the right way to do it but he gives me the flexibility to do what I need to do to make an award-winning wine. Sometimes we can bend the rules as the winemakers and some rules we can't without consequence but if you learn to think outside the box and experiment you will find that we can use them to aid us in that end, but first you have to know the chemical process and how they can be flexed to your vantage. But hey, that's just my way to each his own or hers.

 

[joeswine]

Fruit for thought

A wine fault or defect is an unpleasant characteristic of a wine often resulting from poor winemaking practices or storage conditions, and leading to wine spoilage. Many of the compounds that cause wine faults are already naturally present in wine but at insufficient concentrations to adversely affect it. In fact, depending on perception, these concentrations may impart positive characters to the wine. However when the concentration of these compounds greatly exceeds the sensory threshold, they replace or obscure the flavors and aromas that the wine should be expressing (or that the winemaker wants the wine to express). Ultimately the quality of the wine is reduced, making it less appealing and sometimes undrinkable.[1]
There are many causes for the perception in wine faults, including poor hygiene at the winery, excessive and/or insufficient exposure of the wine to oxygen, excessive or insufficient exposure of the wine to sulphur, overextended maceration of the wine either pre- or post-fermentation, faulty fining, filtering and stabilization of the wine, the use of dirty oak barrels, over-extended barrel aging and the use of poor quality corks. Outside of the winery, other factors within the control of the retailer or end user of the wine can contribute to the perception of flaws in the wine. These include poor storage of the wine that exposes it to excessive heat and temperature fluctuations as well as the use of dirty stemware during wine tasting that can introduce materials or aromas to

Understanding the difference between a wine fault or a wine defect is critical to our when making skills not all of us are fortunate enough to have all the tools at our command at any time or adequate space and time which are critical component in the process as well as a sanitation which is critical , so let's us review the above statements and see what you think?................................................

 

[joeswine]

wine defect or fault??????????

WHENS THE LAST TIME YOU THINK YOU HAD THIS PROBLEM?
Cork taint


2,4,6-trichloroanisole


Cork taint
Cork taint is a wine fault mostly attributed to the compound 2,4,6-trichloroanisole (TCA), although other compounds such as guaiacol, geosmin, 2-methylisoborneol, 1-octen-3-ol, 1-octen-3-one, 2,3,4,6-tetrachloroanisole, pentachloroanisole, and 2,4,6-tribromoanisole are also thought to be involved.[7] TCA most likely originates as a metabolite of mould growth on chlorine-bleached wine corks and barrels. It causes earthy, mouldy, and musty aromas in wine that easily mask the natural fruit aromas, making the wine very unappealing. Wines in this state are often described as "corked". As cork taint has gained a wide reputation as a wine fault, other faults are often mistakenly attributed to it. HAVE YOU RUN INTO THIS?

 

[wineon4]

Cork Taint is also a result of heavy pesticide use around the world. The cork trees absorb it from the air and it causes a condition in the processed cork that can cause cork taint. Mild cork taint can be removed with filters and soaking cut up plastic 2 liter bottles in the wine. I have never had this fault but I have researched it in the event it does happen to any of my wines. I keep my corks in a corkadore in an effort to prevent any cork contamination issues, but cork taint is usually in the cork before you purchase them.

 

[joeswine]

Cork taint

ARE THERE OTHER WAYS OF TREATING THIS FAULT?

CAN THIS CONTAMINATION ALSO COME FROM POUR SANITATION?

 

[wineon4]

I have read where the improper care and cleaning of your oak barrels is thought to possibly cause it, Bentonite that has been left open will draw TCA from the environment ( dusty cellars) and will introduce the taint, tubing and fermenting equipment improperly stored in a cellar that has experienced cork taint can also introduce it. From what I have learned and read it becomes an issue within the whole cellar when you get it sort of like mold in a building it just grows and gets worse until you have to redo the entire cellar if you don't get it under control. Cork taint is caused by the environment, and a clean environment where you make wine is always a help. So yes I would say poor sanitation can result in cork taint. As far as treating all I have read is filtering and soaking with plastic even plastic wrap. I have read about a company that sells a chemical remedy but have not looked into it, I have also seen an article that calls for the use of heavy cream or butter fat, not something I would put in my wine.

I have also read articles on wine faults that say it can't be remedied, and it is only caused by corks that come from a manufacture that uses bleach to bleach the cork white. I have read in some articles that it is a very rare fault due to the better manufacturing processes used today.

I think we are a little this can make a good thread. Wine Faults and how to detect and correct.

 

[joeswine]

Wine faults

NO NOT NECESSARILY ,I'VE DONE THIS THREAD BEFORE AND YOU BE SURPRISED THE EMAILS I GET A LONG THE WAY PLUS THE INPUT FROM WINE PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF WITH ADDED INSIGHT AS WE MOVE THROUGH THIS PLATFORM WE'LL MOVE INTO WINE DEFECTS AND WILL WEAVE BACK AND FORTH....STAY THE COURSE THERE'S A LOT TO BE SAID AND LEARNED,WHAT DO YOU THINK OF DUSTING THE CORKS WITH KMET BEFORE BOTTLING?

 

[wineon4]

I keep my corks in a Corkadore, A container with a sealed airtight lid. In this container I place 2oz of Metabisulfite for every 100 corks. As I use up the corks at bottling time I refresh the sulfite. So I guess this is like dusting them with it, but dusting I think may put a extra shot of SO2 in a single bottle of wine that you may not need, remember that the usual does is 1/4 tsp. per five gallon so what would the amount be in a dusting. In the corkadore system the corks are maintained by SO2 fumes and not actual SO2.

I look at a defect as something that I can remedy rather easily such as cloudy wine, acid crystals, etc. and a fault as something that requires a much more advanced fix or even one I can't remedy.

 

[joeswine]

wine defects

Brettanomyces (Dekkera)[

are these defects or faults? anyone else want to contribute?
Brettanomyces


Main article: Brettanomyces






The yeast Brettanomyces produces an array of metabolites when growing in wine, some of which are volatile phenolic compounds. Together these compounds are often referred to as "Brettanomyces character", or simply "Brett". The main constituents are listed below, with their sensory threshold and common sensory descriptors:

• 4-ethylphenol (>140 µg/L): Band-aids, barnyard, horse stable, antiseptic
• 4-ethylguaiacol (>600 µg/L): Bacon, spice, cloves, smoky
• isovaleric acid: Sweaty, cheese, rancidity

a form of defect or fault?

 

[wineon4]

I have not read or researched much on it. I do know that it can be of a benefit in young wines, low levels of it helps to age a young red wine but I understand that controlling the levels takes extensive wine making experience. Since it can't be remedied when the levels in a wine become noticeable I would say it is definitely a fault.

Now I plan to do a little research on how to use it to age my wines. May try a small 3 gallon batch of Welch's Concentrate Concord and see if I can introduce some. Is the yeast strain available to purchase anywhere. Only problem will be controlling it I would think good sanitation of the equipment that I use with it will prevent unwanted spread to other wines.

 

[joeswine]

Wine defects and faults

THE DREADED SULFUR SMELL AND HOW MANY OUT THERE HAVE HAD A SAMPLE OF IT?

Sulfur dioxide[edit]


Sulfur dioxide is a common wine additive, used for its antioxidant and preservative properties. When its use is not managed well it can be over added, with its perception in wine reminiscent of matchsticks, burnt rubber, or mothballs. Wines such as these are often termed sulfuric.
Hydrogen sulfide[edit]


Hydrogen sulfide (HS) is generally thought to be a metabolic by-product of yeast fermentation in nitrogen limited environments. It is formed when yeast ferments via the sulfate reduction pathway. Fermenting wine is often supplemented with diammonium phosphate (DAP) as a nitrogen source to prevent H2S formation. The sensory threshold for hydrogen sulfide is 8-10 μg/L, with levels above this imparting a distinct rotten egg aroma to the wine. Hydrogen sulfide can further react with wine compounds to form mercaptans and disulfides.

OVER USE OR BAD CHEMISTRY?

 

[Auburn-Bob]

My first batch of fruit wine, in fact my first batch of any wine, was a gallon of peach. It came out very well, and I did not use sulfite, sulfur dioxide, or any such compound.
I know, I know. I MUST use sulfites. Yes I must. But I don't.

 

[jamesngalveston]

All wines contain sulfites naturally. They are a by-product of fermentation. About 1 in 100 persons may have a sensitivity, not allergy, to sulfites. There is no such thing as wines that contain no sulfites, or sulfite-free wines. Grape skins not only host the yeast that ferments grapes into wine, they also contain vinegar bacteria that can spoil new wine. Sulfites (sulfur dioxide and its salts) helps to prevent the spoilage, and it inhibits the growth of molds and bacteria, curtail oxidation (browning), and also preserve flavor.

Getting a headache after drinking wine is usually the result of three factors: sulfites, amines, or overindulgence. Many people incorrectly blame sulfites for their wine headaches. If your headaches are severe only when you drink red wine, you can rule out sulfites as the culprit. Many highly-processed foods have had sulfites added to them (pickles, dried fruit) and, contrary to popular opinion, white wines contain even more than reds.

There are less sulfites used in wine production today than at any other time in history. Better technology, equipment, and sanitation practices all contribute to less bacterial spoilage, and therefore less need for adding sulfites.

To this day, there has yet to be found a better way to keep wine from spoiling than the use of sulfite.

 

[joeswine]

to sulfite or not?

Wine defects and faults
THE DREADED SULFUR SMELL AND HOW MANY OUT THERE HAVE HAD A SAMPLE OF IT?

Sulfur dioxide[edit]


Sulfur dioxide is a common wine additive, used for its antioxidant and preservative properties. When its use is not managed well it can be over added, with its perception in wine reminiscent of matchsticks, burnt rubber, or mothballs. Wines such as these are often termed sulfuric.
Hydrogen sulfide[edit]


Hydrogen sulfide (HS) is generally thought to be a metabolic by-product of yeast fermentation in nitrogen limited environments. It is formed when yeast ferments via the sulfate reduction pathway. Fermenting wine is often supplemented with diammonium phosphate (DAP) as a nitrogen source to prevent H2S formation. The sensory threshold for hydrogen sulfide is 8-10 μg/L, with levels above this imparting a distinct rotten egg aroma to the wine. Hydrogen sulfide can further react with wine compounds to form mercaptans and disulfides.

OVER USE OR BAD CHEMISTRY

Wine defects and faults
THE DREADED SULFUR SMELL AND HOW MANY OUT THERE HAVE HAD A SAMPLE OF IT?

Sulfur dioxide[edit]


Sulfur dioxide is a common wine additive, used for its antioxidant and preservative properties. When its use is not managed well it can be over added, with its perception in wine reminiscent of matchsticks, burnt rubber, or mothballs. Wines such as these are often termed sulfuric.
Hydrogen sulfide[edit]


Hydrogen sulfide (HS) is generally thought to be a metabolic by-product of yeast fermentation in nitrogen limited environments. It is formed when yeast ferments via the sulfate reduction pathway. Fermenting wine is often supplemented with diammonium phosphate (DAP) as a nitrogen source to prevent H2S formation. The sensory threshold for hydrogen sulfide is 8-10 μg/L, with levels above this imparting a distinct rotten egg aroma to the wine. Hydrogen sulfide can further react with wine compounds to form mercaptans and disulfides.

OVER USE OR BAD CHEMISTRY

Wine defects and faults
THE DREADED SULFUR SMELL AND HOW MANY OUT THERE HAVE HAD A SAMPLE OF IT?

Sulfur dioxide[edit]


Sulfur dioxide is a common wine additive, used for its antioxidant and preservative properties. When its use is not managed well it can be over added, with its perception in wine reminiscent of matchsticks, burnt rubber, or mothballs. Wines such as these are often termed sulfuric.
Hydrogen sulfide[edit]


Hydrogen sulfide (HS) is generally thought to be a metabolic by-product of yeast fermentation in nitrogen limited environments. It is formed when yeast ferments via the sulfate reduction pathway. Fermenting wine is often supplemented with diammonium phosphate (DAP) as a nitrogen source to prevent H2S formation. The sensory threshold for hydrogen sulfide is 8-10 μg/L, with levels above this imparting a distinct rotten egg aroma to the wine. Hydrogen sulfide can further react with wine compounds to form mercaptans and disulfides.

OVER USE OR BAD CHEMISTRY, if not used the overall results can be a very short lived product, if over done it can have the same results.the balance being in the ability of the wine maker to control the sanitation of the process and understanding it, so what's the answer??? it's in every individuals standard and nothing more.

 

[joeswine]

How it started

A CONVERSATION FROM 2007
"When Good Wines Gone Bad" was developed with the intent to help the average winemaker with defects in his or her wine. It sounds easy but not always so. I’m inviting you to come with us and take a step back in time, to go over some of the wines I have in my possession. Some of them have lost their flavor but have good alcohol, while some of them have good flavor but not clear. We’re going to go over and make corrections to these wines in written and pictorial format so that you can see how to correct these problems. We will discuss what tools you need in your toolbox and determining if the wine is correctable. Sometimes you just have to say, "Not my quality of wine!" and trash it!
So stay with Kate and I, and you will see firsthand what you can and cannot do to make "A Good Wine That’s Gone Bad".
"When Good Wines Gone Bad" was developed with the intent to help the So stay with Kate and I, and you will see firsthand what you can and cannot do to make "A Good Wine That’s Gone Bad".OR ENHANCE
"When Good Wines Gone Bad" was developed with the intent to help the always so. I’m inviting you to come with us and take a step back in time, to go over some of the wines I have in my possession. Some of them have lost their flavor but have good alcohol, while some of them have good flavor but not clear. We’re going to go over and make corrections to these wines in written and pictorial format so that you can see how to correct these problems. We will discuss what tools you need in your toolbox and determining if the wine is correctable. Sometimes you just have to say, "Not my quality of wine!" and trash it!

THE FIRST CONVERSATION FROM 2007

 

[joeswine]

CONVERSATIONhello fellow wine makers ,my name is joe's wine and I would like to discu

hello fellow wine makers ,my name is joe's wine and I would like to discuss with you the subject (when good wines gone bad ),for the few who have seen it on other forums stand by and for those of you who have not ,its your turn to THINK OUT SIDE THE BOX,.

Have you ever made a wine and for some reason it just didn't turn out what you expected it to be, and didn't understand what went wrong,well i have and after 1o year of making and correcting I finally figured out how to correct most problems or take a so, so wine and enhance it,I would like to go through for you the methods I used to correct some long term problems and short...

we have all made a good fpac,or have we,we know how to make and use ZEST,to enhance the finish of our wine?and do we have a good understanding of which yeast to use for what type of wine were making,do we also know how to use OAK and how to layer body into a wine,after all a wine is like a good sauce and we make a good sauce in layers ,we cellar dwellers have the time to make small corrections and change things quickly if we have a tool kit at hand to do the job required..also the body and the structure of wine and the type of wine your trying to make is some of the items I would like to put forth in WHEN GOOD WINES GONE BAD...


we will start with selecting a wine type and proceed from her,stay tooned

 

[joeswine]

Tom

Listen to Joe. He also is a member of the SJWINEMAKERS with me. Remember his quote "Think Outside The Box" Some of what he does may seam unorthodox as well.
This is not directed at "kit wines" but rather take a different approach to winemaking. Adding things a different times, layering flavors, adding flavors you may not think of adding.
Also look here as I have a pdf of Wine Profiles http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f65/wine-profiles-download-document-3475/ . Look at what the profile of your wine is. Think of what it says when it says "traces of Bleckberry" or "Hint of citrus"

This should be a neat thread

Go get them Joe!~
__________________
Fermenting
__________________
Fermenting

 

[Auburn-Bob]

To this day, there has yet to be found a better way to keep wine from spoiling than the use of sulfite.

I used to use bleach. I would add some to water, then wash everything with it. I would rinse it out with tap water, but it was hard to tell when it was all rinsed out. So I switched to potassium permanganate. It kills germs just as well, but it has an intense purple color, which makes it easy to tell when it is all rinsed out.
I don't add any sterilizing compound to the wine itself.

 

[joeswine]

Sangiovese

SANGIOVESE PROCESS.. TRY IT YOU'LL LIKE IT! Today we bottled our Sanginovese Kit. We tasted before bottling. Its right on target as a Sanginovese should be and only took 90 days from start to finish. It has a nice body, good tannins, zip of acidity, smooth oaky taste and hint of pepper.
So, the tools we used for bottling:
Bottling "ferrari" (this makes bottling SO MUCH EASIER)
The packet of Sorbate and K-met that came with the wine kit
Big stirring spoon
Sanitized bottled (ours are already clean and ready to go on the bottling tree)
Corks
Funnel
Measuring spoon
Plastic seals
The process:
Add the chemicals to the carboy and give it a good stir
Start your auto syphon with the bottling Ferrari. (if you have one. If not use the good old fashioned tubing. This is the manual version for all of the "pumpies" out there.)
Fill up your bottles right up to about ½ inch after the "neck" of the bottle (right where the bottle gets skinnier at the top)
Once your bottles are filled, cork them.
Next, wipe your bottles down with a clean rag so they are dry/clean and put the seals on them. I use a tool that holds the seals to the bottle for me as I dip it into boiling water. (see picture) You can also seal them with another heat source (ie. A hair dryer or heat gun but this is the way its done.)
Sometime next week our labels will come in the mail. We will take a pic of the finished product and upload it to conclude our post on "how to make an inexpensive winekit taste great".
Today we bottled our Sanginovese Kit. We tasted before bottling. Its right on target as a Sanginovese should be and only took 90 days from start to finish. It has a nice body, good tannins, zip of acidity, smooth oaky taste and hint of pepper.
So, the tools we used for bottling:
Bottling "ferrari" (this makes bottling SO MUCH EASIER)
The packet of Sorbate and K-met that came with the wine kit
Big stirring spoon
Sanitized bottled (ours are already clean and ready to go on the bottling tree)
Corks
Funnel
Measuring spoon
Plastic seals
The process:
Add the chemicals to the carboy and give it a good stir
Start your auto syphon with the bottling Ferrari. (if you have one. If not use the good old fashioned tubing. This is the manual version for all of the "pumpies" out there.)
Fill up your bottles right up to about ½ inch after the "neck" of the bottle (right where the bottle gets skinnier at the top)
Once your bottles are filled, cork them.
Next, wipe your bottles down with a clean rag so they are dry/clean and put the seals on them. I use a tool that holds the seals to the bottle for me as I dip it into boiling water. (see picture) You can also seal them with another heat source (ie. A hair dryer or heat gun but this is the way its done.)
Sometime next week our labels will come in the mail. We will take a pic of the finished product and upload it to conclude our post on "how to make an inexpensive winekit taste great".

PICTORIALS TO FOLLOW ...............STAY TOONED

 

[joeswine]

Sangiovese recap

ONE OF THE REAL BIG ITALIAN REDS... PHASE ONE