pH and TA Adjustments

[LittleBearGameFarm]

Hi Guys -

Looking at starting my first must wine with a couple of frozen musts from Wine Grapes Direct, a Cabernet and a Merlot. They each have a Brix of 24 and pH at 3.7 - 3.8 with a TA of 0.55. Would you add anything to get the TA up a little?

Thanks!

 

[JohnT]

Well, How does it taste? That is most important.

If you were to go by the book, your PH looks too high and your TA looks too low. I would look into adding acid to place your TA between .60 and .65. That should be just around 2/3 teaspoons per gallon of wine.

I would also advise that you add tartaric acid rather than an acid blend.

 

[ibglowin]

Maybe a little tartaric to bump up the TA and lower the pH just a bit.

 

[LittleBearGameFarm]

Thanks guys. That is what I was thinking, adding a little tartaric to bump the TA and I asked at the LHBS this past weekend. They looked at me fairly odd and said they didn't have any.

I haven't gotten the frozen musts yet because I wanted to make sure I had everything I might need prior to getting them. They have a couple of cheaper musts at WineGrapesDirect that are actually from 2012. Figured I'd give them a try without having too much invested.

 

[wineforfun]

Maybe a little tartaric to bump up the TA and lower the pH just a bit.

Why tartaric and not acid blend? I am trying to get a handle on the different acids and what they do.

 

[LittleBearGameFarm]

Citric acid may have something to do with it. I believe it converts to acetic acid (vinegar) during MLF. I'm like you though, still trying to figure things out.

 

[GreginND]

You are correct. Acid blend is typically a mix of tartaric, malic and citric acid. And one blend may not be the same ratio as another blend. MLF can convert citric to acetic acid, so it is not recommended. And why add malic if you are planning to do MLF (unless you want more lactic acid in the end).

 

[ibglowin]

Manmade malic acid can not be metabolized by MLB either.

 

[GreginND]

Manmade malic acid can not be metabolized by MLB either.

Half of it should be.

 

[ibglowin]

I forget the source at the moment but somewhere I read that manmade was mostly D+ and natural Malic is L- so very very little of any manmade Malic would be converted. Bottom line don't add any acid blend to a grape wine. It would work OK for "country wines" however.

 

[wineforfun]

Ok, so why tartaric and not malic then, if you are not going to MLF?
And is tartaric recommended whenever you need to raise your acid level, even with a non-grape type wine, ie: blueberry, apricot, Welchs, dragon blood, etc.?

 

[ibglowin]

See my post above yours. If your making red wine from fresh grapes you are trying to get rid of all malic acid by putting it through MLF so why would you want to add acid blend which has malic in it? Your would be shooting yourself in the foot……. making matters worse.

Acid blend is fine for country wines. I don't make DB or SP etc so can't really comment on those.

 

[GreginND]

Synthetic malic acid is what we refer to as a racemic mixture - a 50:50 mixture of the two mirror images D and L.

 

[GreginND]

Ok, so why tartaric and not malic then, if you are not going to MLF?
And is tartaric recommended whenever you need to raise your acid level, even with a non-grape type wine, ie: blueberry, apricot, Welchs, dragon blood, etc.?

This is a bit of a complicated issue. For commercial winemaking, we are only allowed to add acids that are natural to the fruit typically. Tartaric and Malic may be added to grape wines. Citric acid must be used to add to berry wines. Only malic added to apple wines, etc.

As for the home winemaker, you can choose what acids you prefer to use. Aside from the stability problems with some acids (e.g. Citric Acid in a MLF, malic acid for MLF, etc) there are issues of taste.

Malic acid has a pretty sharp acidic taste. Think of green apples. Malic acid is used to make those extreme sour candies that kids love - the ones that really pucker your mouth. If that is the taste you want added to your wine, use malic acid.

Citric acid is the bite you get from citrus fruits like lemon. It is also a pretty sharp tasting acid.

Tartaric acid has a more mild complex acid flavor and is often the better choice because of this.

If you have the opportunity, I would test a few samples of your wine with the different acids and see how it tastes.

 

[sour_grapes]

Nice explanation in post #14, Greg.

Regarding post #13: I think you are allowed to assume Mike knows what racemic means! (I realize you were probably just defining it in-line for the rest of us.)

 

[wineforfun]

This is a bit of a complicated issue. For commercial winemaking, we are only allowed to add acids that are natural to the fruit typically. Tartaric and Malic may be added to grape wines. Citric acid must be used to add to berry wines. Only malic added to apple wines, etc.

As for the home winemaker, you can choose what acids you prefer to use. Aside from the stability problems with some acids (e.g. Citric Acid in a MLF, malic acid for MLF, etc) there are issues of taste.

Malic acid has a pretty sharp acidic taste. Think of green apples. Malic acid is used to make those extreme sour candies that kids love - the ones that really pucker your mouth. If that is the taste you want added to your wine, use malic acid.

Citric acid is the bite you get from citrus fruits like lemon. It is also a pretty sharp tasting acid.

Tartaric acid has a more mild complex acid flavor and is often the better choice because of this.
If you have the opportunity, I would test a few samples of your wine with the different acids and see how it tastes.

Great descriptions, starting to make more sense. Thank you.

 

[ColemanM]

Littlebear, so I made the Cabernet from WGD and the 2013 merlot. They both came with tartaric acid in the shipping box. Along with yeast nutrients etc. I added the tannins and acid into the must. Has been aging seperately in two 3 gallon carboys. They are really coming around and when blended at 50/50 are really pleasing. I didn't test everything to get the actual numbers, and not sure what I would have done if I did. I put them through MLF and oaked. Good wine!

 

[LittleBearGameFarm]

Awesome, thanks for the info on this! Did you try any second runs with the grape skins? I was thinking of getting a cheaper Chilean Malbec kit from Midwest and either using all six gallons on the cabernet skins or dividing it and using 3 and 3 on each of the skins.

 

[ColemanM]

Yes, I used the Merlot with a WE petite Verdot and the cab skins went into a selection Sangiovese. The skin volume was about 2 gallons each so be careful if you use them with a kit. A 7.9 gallon fermenter won't cut it.

 

[LittleBearGameFarm]

Kind of figured that, so, may need to get myself a brute. How's the Petite Verdot coming? I had a Sangiovese from Wollersheim that really turned me off to all Sangiovese's and I've had that same flavor in an Old Vine Zin. I wish I knew how to determine what the flavor was so I could avoid it.

What part of the cities are you in? I have siblings that live in Plymouth and Golden Valley.