Preserving/reserving topping off wine.

[WVRoger]

I am about to perform the first racking of a Coloma Merlot juice wine into a one gallon carboy. I anticipate needing about 250ml of a commercial wine for topping off. I would like to reserve the rest for subsequent rackings. I'm thinking I can preserve the balance of the topping off wine by adding a small amount of k-meta and re-bottling into a sanitized beer bottle and capping it with a crown cap. What do you all think?

Also, 250ml added to gallon seems like it might be enough to play a role in the final product. FG is at 0.992. What would you recommend I use for topping off?

 

[Rice_Guy]

Your volume is small therefore on a percentage basis technique contributes a higher percentage oxygen.
NO HEAD SPACE, if I had my choice I would use a metalized wine bag with all the air squeezed out. beer bottles can work / crown caps are tight but again minimum headspace. One that I have done is LDPE 1” rods in various lengths, another twist on the marble idea would be a synthetic cork with a Stainless steel screw in to keep it from floating.
Gallons are hard I do 4 liter rack to 3.78 liter rack to another gallon with a filler rod.

Today was pressing the pulp from a Petite Pearl, leftovers consist of a 500 ml Grosch with about 1/4” ullage and an Ensure bottle with 1/4” ullage. ,,, Variety

 

[Ohio Bob]

Also, 250ml added to gallon seems like it might be enough to play a role in the final product.

I don’t think it will affect the final. And a blend of a different wine into your Merlot is not necessarily a bad thing. I would use a Cab or Syrah, unless you have a Merlot on hand.

Me, I wouldn’t mess with trying to save the opened bottle of wine, just drink it. Get another bottle ready for the next topping off you need to do. Sometimes we overthink things.

 

[winemaker81]

I don’t think it will affect the final. And a blend of a different wine into your Merlot is not necessarily a bad thing.

I disagree and agree with Bob on this.

The disagree? Major vendors (e.g., Chateau Petrus) believe that adding 3% of a varietal to a batch makes it better. I do not claim my palate is good enough to distinguish the difference, but accept that some folks have such a palate. As such, I cannot argue against their POV, even if I cannot taste the difference.

The agree? No wine (grapes, concentrate, kit, etc.) is the holy grail. The result of a kit made exactly according to package directions is ONE person's (or group's) ideal. It is not necessarily the best.

@WVRoger, your goal should be to produce a wine you are happy with. If you are satisficed with the result, all other POV are null and void.

 

[Ohio Bob]

The disagree? Major vendors (e.g., Chateau Petrus) believe that adding 3% of a varietal to a batch makes it better. I do not claim my palate is good enough to distinguish the difference, but accept that some folks have such a palate. As such, I cannot argue against their POV, even if I cannot taste the difference.

What was unsaid was that I assumed he would be topping off with a similar wine. And also a calculated risk that he would not be able to taste any difference. I believe we are in agreement.

 

[winemaker81]

What was unsaid was that I assumed he would be topping off with a similar wine. And also a calculated risk that he would not be able to taste any difference. I believe we are in agreement.

Probably so!

 

[WVRoger]

I like the idea of topping off vs. adding objects to take up the space primarily because it results in more wine at bottling. But, the plastic rod idea seems simple enough and I'll keep that in mind. As far as head space in the beer bottle, I think I can get to virtually none with the crown cap.

Ohio Bob, A six pack of beer will last me four days. A bottle of wine - four hours. So, I don't buy a lot of it. This is all new to me and with this batch I will have five one gallon carboys bulk aging. If I keep drinking my topping off wine, the cost goes up exponentially.

Winemaker81, my goal is certainly to make a wine I like. But, since I won't know how these experiments turn out for several more months, I'm counting on the experience of the members here to help me get there.

Thanks!

 

[winemaker81]

Winemaker81, my goal is certainly to make a wine I like. But, since I won't know how these experiments turn out for several more months, I'm counting on the experience of the members here to help me get there.

You will make wines you like. Maybe love. But if you make wine long enough you'll make wines you don't. I'm not being negative; that's simply reality.

For winemakers, it's the journey, not the destination.

Not that I don't love it when a wine turns out well!

 

[BarrelMonkey]

One of the harder aspects of home wine making (as compared to commercial) is keeping small amounts of leftover/topping wine in good condition. We all have our collections of small vessels (from maybe 1 gal down to 1 pint? 1 cup?), but keeping them in good condition is IMO more challenging than at a winery, where the smallest increment might be, say 2.5 or 5 gal (with access to inert gases for sparging the headspace).

I purposely 'over-sulfur' my topping wines; I would recommend adding SO2 up to 100ppm in those small leftover vessels. Of course the wine won't taste great by itself but it will help preserve it and will be diluted away when you use it for topping...

 

[mainshipfred]

One of the harder aspects of home wine making (as compared to commercial) is keeping small amounts of leftover/topping wine in good condition. We all have our collections of small vessels (from maybe 1 gal down to 1 pint? 1 cup?), but keeping them in good condition is IMO more challenging than at a winery, where the smallest increment might be, say 2.5 or 5 gal (with access to inert gases for sparging the headspace).

I purposely 'over-sulfur' my topping wines; I would recommend adding SO2 up to 100ppm in those small leftover vessels. Of course the wine won't taste great by itself but it will help preserve it and will be diluted away when you use it for topping...

Here, here, I have had more wine go bad in smaller containers than in full carboys or barrels. Lately I have been over sulfiting my topping off wines. Maybe not to 100 ppm but substantially higher levels.

 

[Brant]

When i started using a 15 gal barrel, I purchased a series of glass swing top bottles in various sizes. I also use 1 gal jugs with airlocks, 750ml bottles with corks. These all seem to work well for keeping topup wine. On the swing tops, I add a very small pinch of kmeta when I use them and keep them stored in a dark place since they are clear glass. Prior to having various container sizes, I would just open new bottles at topup. Having a wide range of container sizes has served me well.

 

[QuiQuog]

Rather than opening a full bottle and trying to preserve it after opening, you could get a 4 pack of 187 ml bottles and use those.

 

[winemaker81]

I re-read this thread and it made me think of a Martha Stewart type meme, "How do I preserve leftover wine?"

The punchline is "What is leftover wine?"

I preserve extra wine in 4 liter, 3 liter 1.5 liter, 750 ml, and 375 ml bottles. Anything excess is consumed or used for cooking. I've got some smaller bottles, but anything that came in them is plonk, not worth using to topup my wine.

 

[tubalcain]

What would be wrong with freezing some- not yet finished wine for future topping? I'm involved with that now. I have fermented 60 gallons of cider with 110 pounds of sugar ec1118 and the result is 70 gallons of wine (oh, subtract the 2 gallons that were spilled) so now I have 10 -6-gallon carboys and one- 5-gallon carboy, with another 3 gallons in another carboy, which has about 10 inches of headspace. Trying to figure how to save the 3 gallons, might have to pitch it.

 

[Ohio Bob]

What would be wrong with freezing some- not yet finished wine for future topping? I'm involved with that now. I have fermented 60 gallons of cider with 110 pounds of sugar ec1118 and the result is 70 gallons of wine (oh, subtract the 2 gallons that were spilled) so now I have 10 -6-gallon carboys and one- 5-gallon carboy, with another 3 gallons in another carboy, which has about 10 inches of headspace. Trying to figure how to save the 3 gallons, might have to pitch it.

Use gallon jugs. Buy them new at your LHBS, or buy jug wine at the store and use the wine for cooking.

 

[Rice_Guy]

What would be wrong with freezing some- not yet finished wine for future topping?

We have three concerns, first is oxidation, second is microbial spoilage, third is sugar that will cause refermentation.
Oxidation happens in the freezer. To successfully pull freezing off we would need a container with no or limited headspace and an oxygen barrier. If you can eliminate air it would work. This gets us back to a variety of containers or something flexible like bag in box films.
Microbial growth, yup the freezer would be a good choice.
On any top up wine we should be looking for something that has low sugar such that refermentation doesn’t happen. Here “partially fermented” gets to be a question. Low as one or two percent residual sugar / like finished wines would be OK but significant as ten percent would restart the fermentation.

Would I do freezing? No, This is because frozen expands and would pop a cap. , but yes I have refrigerated low head space from racking. It is a lot easier than figuring out airlocks.

 

[winemaker81]

What would be wrong with freezing some- not yet finished wine for future topping?

Freezing wine damages it. Even if the ferment is not complete, I'd not do it.

 

[tubalcain]

All the advice is appreciated. 4 one gallon jugs with bubblers coming tomorrow. I think that no damage has been done.
48 gallons and a pic of the offending partial 5 gallon with 17 more.

 

[Jusatele]

I have to agree with winemaker81 on the question of What is leftover wine.
I actually plan a bit ahead to have extra to use when racking. I use Speidel fermenters and secondary and age in 3 or 5 gallon carboys.
the Speidel fermenters I use are just over 5 gallon and just over 7 gallon. This allows me to make plan and use enough must that after fermentation and I rack I can fill a carboy and have enough for a extra bottle to use when racking again etc.
If I do an one gallon amount, I would ferment in a 2 gallon bottle. About the question how much extra do I need, that totally depends on the wine you are making, different fruits have different amounts of Lees and so the amounts differ.
You soon learn how much you will need.
And on bottling day, having a half liter extra of a batch is a blessing for the bottling person to enjoy.

 

[Jusatele]

Use gallon jugs. Buy them new at your LHBS, or buy jug wine at the store and use the wine for cooking.

I think we can all agree the biggest wine makers in the world make those jug wines. I think I agree they may not be the best but using them for the base of wine cocktails or for a sangria is a good choice. I could only imagine how long I would need to cook to use up all the jug wine I have bought just to have another 1 gallon jug

I think jug wine can be cheaper that 1 gallon jugs at the brewer store