Primary to Secondary...

[WineandDine]

I'm making the Grand Cru International Cabernet, my first attempt at homemaking. Directions say around day 6-8 of primary fermentation the sg should be 1.020 or lower, at which time you should move to the carboy. At the end of the day yesterday (Day 4) my wine was at 1.024. What is the ideal sg the wine should have before moving to the carboy? I anticipate by the end of today sg will be below 1.020. Should I rack today? Or wait it out a day or two more? There is no more foaming, but I can still hear some sizzling, and see the wine swirling around a little. I'm worried about waiting too long and the wine being exposed to too much oxygen.

Thanks!

 

[JohnT]

I would wait another day. I am thinking that it is still very activly fermenting. When you trasfer to a carboy, all of those bubble will be funneled into a 1 inch opening. Give it time.

O2 is actually a good thing when it comes to fermentation. You should actually be stirring your must 1 or twice a day to add a little O2 to the yeast.

If the wine is still churning, it is creating a protective blanket of CO2. Not to worry.

 

[WineandDine]

Thanks John. I've ben stiring based on suggestions of other members. I'll wait another day or two and see where I'm at.

 

[WineandDine]

Just racked to my carboy. There seems to be a lot of space between the wine and the top of the carboy. Not sure what the level is supposed to be at. Here is a photo. Is the wine level ok? or should i top it off? if so, what should i top off with? a similar type of wine? help please!

 

[pightr]

That amount of head space is perfectly fine for now. Once you get to the point where you are adding the rest of your packs with the kit it will say to top up the carboy to about 2 inches below the bung fitting. Most people here top up the carboy with a like wine, I've known some that don't top up at all, and some people use a argon gas. But as far as now you are sitting great and just let it take its corse.

 

[abefroman]

You just started secondary ferm, so there is a lot of CO2, once that starts to run out, you will want it topped up more.

 

[Wade E]

Like said above since your wine is fermenting and youll need to degas your wine you 1) need that extra room so as not to blow out your bung and airlock and 2) so you have room to add the rest of the stuff and have some room to degas without overflowing your carboy as degassing can cause some serious foam up due tom C02 coming out of suspension. Dont believe me? Heres a pic of what it can look like if you dont do it gently at first!

 

[abefroman]

Like said above since your wine is fermenting and youll need to degas your wine you 1) need that extra room so as not to blow out your bung and airlock and 2) so you have room to add the rest of the stuff and have some room to degas without overflowing your carboy as degassing can cause some serious foam up due tom C02 coming out of suspension. Dont believe me? Heres a pic of what it can look like if you dont do it gently at first!

Lol, forgot about that.

I fill my in up, then taste test a couple glasses to build head room for degassing.

 

[Dugger]

I'm making the Grand Cru International Cabernet, my first attempt at homemaking. Directions say around day 6-8 of primary fermentation the sg should be 1.020 or lower, at which time you should move to the carboy....
Thanks!

Interesting how these kits call for the traditional primary bucket ferment and a secondary carboy ferment, while the Grand Cru and Cru Select kits use the 14 day bucket ferment. Anyone know why?

 

[djrockinsteve]

Possible answer, as the wine begins to finish it's fermentation the amount of carbon dioxide given off slows down. CO2 acts as a blanket protecting your wine from oxygen starting to oxidize the wine.

Everyone has different ways to make wine however the "chemistry" does not change. Moving to a carboy will slow fermentation further due to the lack of oxygen feeding the yeasts. It's a dbl. edge sword. Yeast need oxygen but oxygen harms wine (basically).

As long as fermentation is progressing, and you are stirring at least twice daily you are kicking up CO2 to rise to the top. If fermentation is progressing in a timely manner then you are fine to ferment dry in a primary. If concerned snap on a lid with airlock as it reaches 1.000 This will keep CO2 in the bucket yet there's enough oxygen in the must to feed the yeast a few more days.

 

[cpfan]

Interesting how these kits call for the traditional primary bucket ferment and a secondary carboy ferment, while the Grand Cru and Cru Select kits use the 14 day bucket ferment. Anyone know why?

I haven't made a lot of RJS kits lately (used to be an RJS retailer), but the grape skins brands seem to be 7 days in the primary, while the non-grape skin brands seem to be 14 days in the primary. So Grand Cru and Cru Select are 14 days. Grand Cru International is 7.

Steve

 

[Dugger]

Sorry, my question wasn't as clear as I intended - I meant why go to the older set of directions for the International kits when the newer directions are used for the other kits.
I thought about the Grapeskin part of it, but the Cru Select RQ kits with skins use the 14 day protocol also. The International kits do use smaller skin packs so maybe that's a part of the rationale.

 

[cpfan]

Sorry, my question wasn't as clear as I intended - I meant why go to the older set of directions for the International kits when the newer directions are used for the other kits.
I thought about the Grapeskin part of it, but the Cru Select RQ kits with skins use the 14 day protocol also. The International kits do use smaller skin packs so maybe that's a part of the rationale.

Cru Select kits do not NORMALLY have grape skin packs. That's why I used the term "brands" not "varieties". Personally, I think you are pointing to a flaw in the way RJS distributes instructions.

If I recall correctly, they encourage stirring if there are grape skins in the kit. This could lead to oxidation problems in a 14 day primary, as the stirring will remove any protective CO2 layer. So the 7 day primary is recommended for grape skin BRANDS (yes it should be varieties or kits), but not for non-grape skin brands (and Cru Select is NOT a grape skin brand).

Steve

 

[WineandDine]

thanks everyone for the tips about when to top off the carboy.

as far as degasing goes, how do i know when the wine is ready to degas and add the clearing chemicals? The directions say day 20. If my wine stops fermenting before the day 20 marker (if my sg readings haven't changed in a few days), should i go to the next step, or still wait out the 20 days?

 

[Dugger]

Sorry, WineandDine, didn't mean to hijack your thread ( I emailed Spagnols to see what their rationale is for the instructions, waiting for a reply).
Your carboy is an Italian one and these are slightly more than 23 liters so your level is close to where a kit usually comes to on the shoulders of these carboys.
Basically, when your fermentation is complete, you can stabilize and degas. However, if your temperature is up I think you would be safe leaving it for a few extra days if you wish since it will be protected by a layer of CO2. It's your choice. Make sure your temperature is up around 75* F when you degas; the CO2 comes out much easier at warmer temps.

 

[Wade E]

Even with the grape skin kits I ferment to dry. After about 10 days I yank the skins out and typically snap the lid down and dont open it but shake the bucket every other day to get it stirred up a bit.

 

[WineandDine]

Sorry, WineandDine, didn't mean to hijack your thread ( I emailed Spagnols to see what their rationale is for the instructions, waiting for a reply).
Your carboy is an Italian one and these are slightly more than 23 liters so your level is close to where a kit usually comes to on the shoulders of these carboys.
Basically, when your fermentation is complete, you can stabilize and degas. However, if your temperature is up I think you would be safe leaving it for a few extra days if you wish since it will be protected by a layer of CO2. It's your choice. Make sure your temperature is up around 75* F when you degas; the CO2 comes out much easier at warmer temps.

No worries Dugger-I think hijacking the thread is allowed, as long as we all learn something

Wade- For a newbie like me, what does ferment to dry mean??

 

[sly22guy]

It means to ferment until a hydrometer reads a low S.G. Usually under
1.000.

 

[abefroman]

No worries Dugger-I think hijacking the thread is allowed, as long as we all learn something

Wade- For a newbie like me, what does ferment to dry mean??

Ferment it until the yeast stops eating sugar, and then back sweeten if needed. In other words don't try to stop the fermentation to get a sweeter wine.