Pump + Timer = Bottle Filler?

[JohnT]

Weight presumes identical bottles.

1) He might be re-using bottles of different types/shapes/etc.
2) It is possible that the variation in weight of even identical bottles is more than the weight of a few ml of wine.

My thinking is that there might be something on the market that "zero's out" like a digital scale. If you can find one, you could place the bottle on the scale, zero it out, then have the switch trigger when 750ml wine-weight is reached?

My thinking is that this method would have the same accuracy problems, but could fill much, much faster.

 

[NorCal]

I will be filling new or reused bottles that would be from the same producer, so bottle to bottle variation should be minimized. I'm thinking that should be pretty minimal.

 

[richmke]

1 ml of wine weighs about 0.035 ounces. So, to be +/- 3ml, the scale would have to be accurate to within +/- 0.1 ounces. That is pretty high accuracy.

That presumes your system cuts off in a repeatable fashion. If there is error in your system, the amount of wine delivered after cutoff could easily vary by +/- 3ml. 3ml is about 1/2 of a teaspoon.

 

[GeoS]

You do not want to cycle your pump on and off. Each time it starts it pulls about 6 times its rated current and most motors have limitations on how many times you can do that without damaging the pump. Also, you do not want to block off the discharge side of the pump. If you close a valve the pump will be pushing fluid into a "wall" and will over heat as well. The motor shaft will slow down and cause excessive currents.

I would recommend putting an electronic valve on the suction side, where the fluid is drawn out of the bucket. This way the pump will be trying to pull fluid that is not there and it will not damage the pump.

3.3 GPM is a lot to fill a bottle. Perhaps try a needle valve to regulate the flow to something more reasonable. Just put it in the suction side as well.

 

[GeoS]

You could also use a bypass valve. Just loop the excessive wine back to the bucket. You can buy bypass valves that you set for a given flow rate so only the rate you want goes to the bottler.

 

[sour_grapes]

Weight presumes identical bottles.

With a tare function, maybe?

 

[richmke]

I would recommend putting an electronic valve on the suction side, where the fluid is drawn out of the bucket. This way the pump will be trying to pull fluid that is not there and it will not damage the pump.

A lot of liquid pumps use the liquid to cool the pump. Draw air, and it could cause the pump to overheat.

Using a bypass switch on the output side would have a lot of wine circulating through the pump. I know that a lot of turbulence is introduced when mechanically degassing. I wonder how damaging excessive turbulence can be on the wine. To be on the safe side, I would keep a cap of CO2 on top of the wine. It would minimize any O2 dissolving in due to the surface turbulence.

 

[GeoS]

Running wine through a pump causes excessive turbulence. I wouldn't be too concerned about cooling the pump, its the motor that will overheat.

 

[NorCal]

@Geos, the pump manufacturer says the pump is made for "dispense on demand" applications and "intermittent use", so there are protections built into this pump to allow using it in this manner.

 

[tanddc]

I think the pump is used for RV's. It is fine to cycle these pumps and I don't think that heat will be an issue. Some of there pumps come with a built in bypass (so they don't cycle as often with low volume usage). This will kill your timer idea but would work well with the scale. My kitchen scale measures to grams so .1 oz would be nothing.

I just bought my wife one of the Ferrari automatic bottle fillers. We will see how well it works tonight providing I can find an auto syphon locally. I broke mine last night

 

[vacuumpumpman]

NorCal -
Picture using the Allinone bottling setup and using your timed solenoid inline.

The valve would go in the vacuum side and it typically only takes 15 seconds using the Allinonewinepump. So you could set it at 17 seconds per say and all the overflow will be caught in a separate bottle. You would have exact consitentant height every time - no matter which type of bottle you have. It would be very similar to the Allinone - but more automated - so you can walk away for 17 seconds per bottle fill.

If there are others out there that would like this added fearture to the Allinone - please let me know and I will look more into it - seems simple enough.

 

[NorCal]

I had some time this morning to tinker with the project. In an effort to reduce the variance due to the pump and to slow the flow I put a T fitting in and a valve to control the flow on the return. Here is a little video I shot:

http://youtu.be/4Jzm45NJr_I

I then adjusted the time down a little and ran 5 bottles back to back. As you can see, the accuracy is still right about plus or minus 15ml, way more than the plus or minus 3 that I need.

So, I agree with others that said that it is not the right pump for the job. There are a lot of fluid dynamics as well, that I'm not sure I would ever really get to the bottom of. I have most of the makings (including a vacuum pump) to do as Steve suggested, so maybe I'll give that a try.

 

[GeoS]

I'm not sure why you need to go through all of this to get the accuracy. If you want bottles to be filled consistently use a bottling wand and fill the bottle just until it starts to overflow. Let the wand make up the amount of volume you need in the neck. If you need more volume than the wand has wrap some plumbing tape around it or put rubber grommets on it.

Basically, fill the bottle to the top and when you pull the wand out the fluid in the bottle will go down.

 

[NorCal]

Geos, it is perhaps a matter of needs and wants. With the 100 gallons I'm doing this year, I probably don't need an automated solution, but, I want one and think I can do so by using inexpensive and readily available parts. Not much else to do in the garage, except stare at the barrels

 

[cmason1957]

My wife and I do about 150 gallons per year. We use gravity siphon and a Ferrari auto shutoff Filler. You just put it in the bottle, press down, it fills to a predetermined, variable height, flow stops, push button, move to next bottle. I don't think it can get much simpler. Both she and I have bottled alone with the setup. They cost something less than $20.

 

[tanddc]

My wife and I do about 150 gallons per year. We use gravity siphon and a Ferrari auto shutoff Filler. You just put it in the bottle, press down, it fills to a predetermined, variable height, flow stops, push button, move to next bottle. I don't think it can get much simpler. Both she and I have bottled alone with the setup. They cost something less than $20.

We just purchased one of these as well and have run into problems with it leaking out the top. Is there a trick to these?

OP, sorry to highjack your thread with the question above.

I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.

 

[seth8530]

I would still do this via mass instead of level, but I think some here miss the point... This is not necessarily about making bottling r easier, it is more about the tinkering.. which seems evident to me from sine off his older post. And why not? Isn't wine making tinkering too? Why not just buy boxed wine? Because making wine is fun.

 

[sour_grapes]

I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.

Hey, now that is a good idea. I had been thinking of a solution for NorCal that involved light sensing; I even went so far as to look at transmission curves (as a function of light frequency) through glass vs. water, but did not get too far. But tanddc's idea sounds simpler and more reliable.

 

[NorCal]

We just purchased one of these as well and have run into problems with it leaking out the top. Is there a trick to these?

OP, sorry to highjack your thread with the question above.

I like to tinker as well and have been watching this conversation because I find it very interesting. If you have 12 volt relay and power source, it might be as simple as couple of bare wires on your filling wand at the level you want the wine to shut off and use the wine to complete the circuit.

No problem, and it is relevant because all the bottlers I have used required some form of adjustment or clean up on a regular basis to get the fill height in the neck of the bottle.
I thought about the probes, but in order for that to be effective, you would have to progressively slow the fill rate as it reaches the top, which is difficult with this style pump.

 

[richmke]

Prefill a tank to a known amount 750 ml, and then dump the tank into the bottle. The tank refills as your are swapping out bottles.