Question about wine taste during the winemaking process.

[BigDaveK]

buy workout puzzle mats. Put 'em on the counter while working on yours wines. I have 'em on the floor in my cellar.

Excellent idea! Still cheap at Harbor Freight. I put them on my concrete basement floor before I got rubber stall mats from Tractor Supply. Concrete and glass always makes me nervous.

 

[BigDaveK]

Interesting. Maybe I’ll put my scapes to use this coming July.

I've cooked them and did the lacto-fermentation for years. Wine gives me a third option.

BTW, I moved it into position, bottling tomorrow, and I have tartaric crystals. Kind of a surprise.

 

[balatonwine]

Am I just getting to anxious too quickly?

Maybe. Or maybe not.

Will the taste improve as the clearing process?

Maybe. Or maybe not.

It depends on what are the causes of the change in flavors and what exactly was the cause of the "weird aftertaste". And exactly what was the "weird aftertaste".

Typically, if my wine tastes okay during the entire process, it will usually turn out okay (but not always -- wine is funny sometimes).

If my wine tastes "off" during the process, that is usually due to a reason that I need to correct.

But I know the difference between "off" flavors that will cause problems and a little bit of CO2 that does not bother me and I would not consider "weird".

So to start, there are many sources (web pages and other wine making literature) explaining wine faults and their flavors and aromas. Try to start there to find out exactly what the issue may be. And if it can be corrected.

Hope this helps.

 

[dcf1999]

Maybe. Or maybe not.



Maybe. Or maybe not.

It depends on what are the causes of the change in flavors and what exactly was the cause of the "weird aftertaste". And exactly what was the "weird aftertaste".

Typically, if my wine tastes okay during the entire process, it will usually turn out okay (but not always -- wine is funny sometimes).

If my wine tastes "off" during the process, that is usually due to a reason that I need to correct.

But I know the difference between "off" flavors that will cause problems and a little bit of CO2 that does not bother me and I would not consider "weird".

So to start, there are many sources (web pages and other wine making literature) explaining wine faults and their flavors and aromas. Try to start there to find out exactly what the issue may be. And if it can be corrected.

Hope this helps.

Lol I’m not good enough yet to figure out what the “off” flavors are, or even how to describe the wine.

For example… my first batch of wine was the strawberry wine from orchard breezn’.

I’ve had this wine before… actually from a winery that made their wine from these kits… it was very crisp and not overpowering. The winery has all the same wines as Orchard Breezn with their description 90% the same as orchard Breezn descriptions

So when I bottled my strawberry (after 4 weeks per instructions) it had almost the same taste. It was very drinkable but felt heavy or “syrupy” and I don’t know why? I kinda chalked it up to the F-pack.

The F-pack is a thicker syrup and I thought maybe that made the seem syrupy and maybe a little sweeter than I like.

I was wondering if, instead of adding the entire F-pack at end, using 3/4 of it instead? I guess I don’t know whats exactly in the F-pack. Is it just simple syrup to back sweeten? Does it have extra flavors? etc….

This batch in making now (which this post was about) I did 1/2 the pack in the primary and 1/2 in the Carboy when I racked it. It’s for sure drier, but the flavor wasn’t quite there.

Again, I’ve had this wine before from said winery but theirs is a truly sweet wine while I wanted to make it a little dryer and less heavy.

So I guess my next question here is… how do I make the wine “crisper” and less heavy or syrupy? Is that also a factor of aging? Add less F-pack?

Sorry for long delay and long reply.

 

[dcf1999]

I will be starting my third wine today (again an orchard Breezn kit). I think I may do it per instructions (not putting any F-pack in primary) and just adding 3/4 of the pack when I rack to Carboy. I supposed, at time of bottling, I can always add the remaining F-pack to taste?

I might also add 1 lb of sugar to primary to bump the alcohol content.

 

[balatonwine]

Lol I’m not good enough yet to figure out what the “off” flavors are, or even how to describe the wine.

Yes that takes experience to describe a wine. It took quite a lot of wine tasting for me till the ball dropped and.... yes I could taste that chocolate....

But off flavors or aromas are easier, in theory. Mainly because they are often very easy to detect and are not so subtle. Especially if you reverse the process. Like I said: There are many sites that describe wine faults and what they taste and smell like. Read those, then smell and taste your wine. That is work backwards... it will be easier.

That being said, it is not perfect. After all, anything with wine, including faults, will depend on with what one has experienced. Smells like burnt matches, asparagus, burnt rubber, or mousey can vary by one's experience. Most people have experienced the smell of burnt matches, but few have experienced mouse urine (the cause of "mousey" smell). Without training by someone with experience, helping you to identify flavors and aromas, self study alone may not work in all cases. Even I do not know if I could call any smell "mousey".

Hope this helps.

 

[winemanden]

You're right Balaton about the training. After an inter-club competition, the judge said to one entrant, "your pear wine is a touch mousey." Three of us tasted the wine, the maker, myself, and another member who was a qualified wine judge. None of us could find it, but the comp judge said, "put a spot on the palm of your hand and rub your palms together." We did as he asked and there it was, mousey pee. The competition judge must have had a very keen sense of smell, because in the glass not one of us could sniff it.

 

[dcf1999]

So about the F-pack. I tried searching but cannot find the right answer.

This new kit I’m going to add 1/4 to 1/3 of F-pack to primary…. Plus some sugar

The instructions call to add F-pack during the racking process (rack, degass, add f-pack basically).

Can I leave out the f-pack until right before bottling so I can add a little at a time, mix, and taste to our liking?

Like I said, my first batch almost tasted like a sweet syrup and I want it more “crisper” or lighter (don’t know how to description it).

 

[NewfieMike]

I like to add the f-pack right after I stabilize/degas the wine for Orchard Breezin kits.

Here's a good little discussion on backsweetening you might find interesting RJ Spagnols - RJS ORCHARD BREEZIN Blackberry Blast - to oak or not?

Others have added 4lbs of sugar in the primary and use the full f-pack when they rack/stabilize/degas. I really like this idea as you bump the alcohol which is what you're looking for and still get the taste you want.

 

[cmason1957]

So about the F-pack. I tried searching but cannot find the right answer.

This new kit I’m going to add 1/4 to 1/3 of F-pack to primary…. Plus some sugar

The instructions call to add F-pack during the racking process (rack, degass, add f-pack basically).

Can I leave out the f-pack until right before bottling so I can add a little at a time, mix, and taste to our liking?

Like I said, my first batch almost tasted like a sweet syrup and I want it more “crisper” or lighter (don’t know how to description it).

I never add the F-Pack until right before bottling. I don't bulk age the Orchard Breezin kits much at all, maybe a month at the most. But I do always add that 4lbs of sugar mentioned above. It has to be above 10% ABV for me to be anywhere near happy with the wine. and yes you can add 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 5/8 whatever amount of the F-Pack you want to get the taste you want.

 

[winemaker81]

Can I leave out the f-pack until right before bottling so I can add a little at a time, mix, and taste to our liking?

You can do whatever you want. There are no rules -- you can do what you want and produce a decent result.

However, listening to experience is a good idea. Craig (@cmason1957) is spot on. I'd adjust the OG to hit an ABV of 11% to 12%, which the F-Pack will lower. Add the F-Pack to taste.

 

[joeswine]

I never add the F-Pack until right before bottling. I don't bulk age the Orchard Breezin kits much at all, maybe a month at the most. But I do always add that 4lbs of sugar mentioned above. It has to be above 10% ABV for me to be anywhere near happy with the wine. and yes you can add 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 5/8 whatever amount of the F-Pack you want to get the taste you want.

That’s correct

 

[Rice_Guy]

Lol I’m not good enough yet to figure out what the “off” flavors are, or even how to describe the wine.

This is why Prairie Vinters had a program on judging/ group tasting this week, , and Wisconsin Vinters had a program/ group tasting in January and McHenry Corkers has share a bottle every meeting. , , , etc etc
You are in Illinois/ close and invited to bring some wine to a club meeting. It is really powerful to have someone give a name/ chemistry that one can type into a Google search.

 

[joeswine]

There is a wheel tasting chart out there that gives you all the different types of flavors or tastes and classification on the wheel , this is old text , not rocket science

 

[dcf1999]

This is why Prairie Vinters had a program on judging/ group tasting this week, , and Wisconsin Vinters had a program/ group tasting in January and McHenry Corkers has share a bottle every meeting. , , , etc etc
You are in Illinois/ close and invited to bring some wine to a club meeting. It is really powerful to have someone give a name/ chemistry that one can type into a Google search.

I didn’t even know they had these groups! I’m going to have to research them and some!

 

[dcf1999]

I want to thank everyone for all this useful information. I think I learned enough to try some different variations I have 2 batches going now and a third soon.

My first batch going (did 1/2 f-pack in primary and 1/2 on racking) I will rack and bulk age for 2 - 3 months to see if that improves taste. Modify before bottling to adjust taste if needed.

My second batch I started yesterday. I added 2 lbs of corn sugar (probably should have done 3 maybe) and started with S.G. of 1.070. I will add 1/2 - 2/3 F-pack when I rack to clear it, then add more if needed at bottling.

Third Batch I’ll start when 2nd is done and will possibly try for an S.G. of 1.080 then, depending how 2nd batch turns out, probably do same with F-pack.

I’ll have to buy some more carboys to bulk age. This is starting to get addicting.

I tried to convince my wife that I need to build an outbuilding on our land for the “winery and tasting room… say a 40 x 60”. That didn’t work

Again, that’s everyone for the help and patience!

 

[Ohio Bob]

I tried to convince my wife that I need to build an outbuilding on our land for the “winery and tasting room… say a 40 x 60”. That didn’t work

Perhaps it would work if the alternative is to use the kitchen for your winemaking.

 

[dcf1999]

Perhaps it would work if the alternative is to use the kitchen for your winemaking.

Oh I do, and the first time I bottled wine… did I make the mess. I have a bottle filler that came with my kit. It has a vent hose that I didn’t know should be placed into a bottle (didn’t have instructions and too excited to bottle). I had my 8 year old hold the hose straight up, I had the tube going into filler device chocked down… whatever I did, I had wine spitting out of that hose. I think I even spilled part of a bottle. I was using my daughters makeup dresser stool to put the bottles when I was filling them… that got coated in wine.

Yea… my wife was less than thrilled with Mickey Mouse operation I had going on.

Lessons learned and I think it will be a lot cleaner next time around.

 

[Rice_Guy]

* plastic milk crates are useful, you can fill bottles into them, raise carboy height with ‘em, sit on em while working and they hold the tools when done.
* a 40-60 is nice. The storage part should moderate temperatures as much as possible therefore the best ones I have seen are walk in coolers.
* when in the kitchen I used the drawers for gravity bottling and like you have a story of wine in the drawer ,,, wine is food prep after all

 

[joeswine]

You're right Balaton about the training. After an inter-club competition, the judge said to one entrant, "your pear wine is a touch mousey." Three of us tasted the wine, the maker, myself, and another member who was a qualified wine judge. None of us could find it, but the comp judge said, "put a spot on the palm of your hand and rub your palms together." We did as he asked and there it was, mousey pee. The competition judge must have had a very keen sense of smell, because in the glass not one of us could sniff it.

Sorry I never smelled mouse pee ? It would be hard for me to tell