Raspberry wine question

[Traverse]

I am currently making 3 gallons of raspberry wine that I pressed myself. Here are my 'logs' so far (just so you know where I'm at):

12/12/12 - added yeast
12/23/12 - SG 1.06
12/28/12 - SG 1.02; Racked to carboy
01/12/13 - SG 0.992
01/19/13 - Racked

I have been reading that I should have stabilized after fermentation was done, as well as tested the PH. I don't know anything about testing the PH, but I can read about that later. I'm concerned with the fact that I didn't stabilize, and it's been 17 days since the end of fermentation. Can I, or should I stabilize now? What will that end up doing for me? Is it completely necessary?

At this point I planned on waiting for it to settle and clear a bit, then rack and wait to clear. I'm going to let it clear and degas naturally. Is there anything you think I should do prior to that? Thanks,

-Traverse

 

[Deezil]

You dont really need to worry about stabilizing until you're getting ready to sweeten the wine.. Since you're still degassing and clearing, and taking your time with it, you dont really need to worry about stabilizing right now - although you will want to learn how to keep track of your SO2

The sorbate just keeps yeast from dividing further when theres a new sugar source, the k-meta added at the same time helps the sorbate perform better... But until you want to introduce a new sugar source, its no big deal

If you dont have a pH meter, you can test TA - they arent the same reading,but they both deal with acidity and TA kits can be found relatively cheaply at the LHBS and will give you an idea on how acidic your raspberry is

 

[Traverse]

Perfect, thank you so much. That's great news

-Traverse

 

[Turock]

You should get used to taking PH readings of all your musts and adjusting acids pre ferment. Especially on something like raspberry. Raspberry is very acidic and it's impossible to make adjustments post ferment if the acids are very high because potassium carbonate can only be used for tweaking the acid level---not moving it several tenths. This wine could end up with acid problems that you can't resolve except thru blending.

 

[Traverse]

Hmm, that's not so great news. I followed a recipe, and they had me add acid blend, among other things I'm not entirely familiar with. If raspberry is that acidic, whats the point in adding more? I hope this wine isn't screwed up, I followed directions to a T and people that made it said it turned out great. I will definitely read up on acidity in wines as it seems vital

-Traverse

 

[BernardSmith]

I wonder if you might taste the wine as you measure the gravity. The CO2 (carbon dioxide) that will still be in the wine may make it taste more acidic than it will taste after all the CO2 has dissipated or you have degassed, but tasting would show you whether your wine tastes too acidic or is OK or something that you are really looking for.
Tasting very small amounts of wine at different stages in the fermentation process is important. Certainly, the wine is not yet ready for drinking but cooks are constantly tasting, knowing how your wine tastes is as least as important as knowing the pH (although knowing the pH gives you information about how much sulfur dioxide (SO2) should be in your wine ) not least because taste is what you are after, isn't it? And tasting allows you to have a better handle on recipes and so a better understanding about the outcomes you are looking for rather than the inputs that recipes seem to focus on.

 

[Traverse]

You have a valid point - if I'm looking for taste, I need to be tasting it. I tasted it only on the last reading I took and it was terrible. That was to be expected though, as my riesling tasted terrible early on and had much improved in time. I will keep that in mind as I move further. I do not have a developed palette though and have a hard time distinguishing between flavors and other aspects. I look forward to improving that.

 

[Turock]

Tasting during fermentation won't help you much. Getting the must adjusted and tasting the various PH levels at that point will tell you more of how the wine is going to turn out. It's all designed in the primary.

 

[Traverse]

I will most definitely keep that in mind. I tasted the 2 grape juices before fermentation, I don't know why I didn't taste the raspberry.

-Traverse

 

[novalou]

I will most definitely keep that in mind. I tasted the 2 grape juices before fermentation, I don't know why I didn't taste the raspberry.

-Traverse

One thing no one has mentioned yet is adding potassium metabisulfite post fermentation. At this stage of your wine, it helps not only from bacteria, but also an anti-oxidant.

Add a 1/4 tsp to 5 mL of water, stir to dissolve. Draw 3 mL and add it to your wine. (Learned this trick from Runningwolf!)

If it turns out that your wine is acidic, sweeten it up. (Add sorbate when you do.)

If raspberry wine is anything like strawberry, it will be better in 6 months.

 

[Traverse]

Well I was hoping that if I didn't touch it since right after secondary I wouldn't have a need for an anti-oxident. So say I racked after secondary fermentation was over, but I didn't add k-meta; topped it off and air locked. Would that small amount of air do much damage?

-Traverse

 

[saramc]

Well I was hoping that if I didn't touch it since right after secondary I wouldn't have a need for an anti-oxident. So say I racked after secondary fermentation was over, but I didn't add k-meta; topped it off and air locked. Would that small amount of air do much damage?

-Traverse

SO2 is more than an antioxidant as it inhibits bacterial growth. SO2 management is something to learn about. LHBS may carry SO2 test kit, if not grab one online. In the abscence of a kit many choose to dose with k-meta, typically 1/4 tsp per five gallons, usually no more than every 90 days once wine has finished fermenting and you are in the clearing/racking/bulk aging phases. But a test kit takes all the guess work out of it.
Since wine is dry as of 1/12 and you racked on 1/19, I would simply pop the airlock and add the k-meta. No big deal. Wine is more resilient than you think. As you get more experience you will breath easier, and enjoy to smell the roses (or rose').

 

[Traverse]

I will certainly do that, thanks for the information. There's quite a bit to keep track of when making wine

-Traverse

 

[Traverse]

I measured the TA and pH yesterday. TA was about .85% and the pH strip showed 3.2 or 3.3ish. According to "modern winemaking" my target range was a TA of .6-.75% (depending on whether I count the raspberry as a dry red or dry white; I'm thinking somewhere in between) and a pH of 3.2-3.6. Can I lower the acidity this much (this is after fermentation)? And if the acid strength is within targeted range does that mean that the acidic taste will be fine, and not overly noticeable? Can someone please explain the relationship between TA, pH, and the wine?

 

[Deezil]

The TA is a *bit* high, but not too bad... You could probably sweeten it (just make sure you stabilize with k-meta & sorbate first), to somewhere between off-dry and semi-sweet, and have a wonderful wine

If you really wanted to lower the TA, you could try cold stabilizing the wine... (mid 30's F for a few weeks) and that'd cause some of the acids to precipitate out..

Wine boils down to 'balance'.. TA & pH are just one facet of the wine, with sweetness, mouthfeel, alcohol level, being others... You can "hide" high acidity, to a point, when the rest of the wine balances with the acidity...

From my limited understanding, TA is a measure of the amount of acids present, and pH is the strength of those acids; plays an important part in microbial stability (keeping funkies from growing) and impacts the amount of SO2 needed for protection

 

[Traverse]

I don't necessarily need to lower the TA as long as I can make the wine taste good; an off-dry sounds like a good idea. How much sugar would be needed to make an off-dry wine? Just add sugar to taste? Maybe add measured amounts to a sample and keep the ratio. I read about cold stabilizing; does the acid precipitate, or crystallize needing a rack? Thanks for the info Deezil.

-Traverse The Universe

 

[Deezil]

You're looking at bench trials here, to find the 'sweet spot' where the acidity and sweetness level come into balance to bring the most out of the wine... This will require a few small samples, sweetened to different SG's, and some taste testing on your part.. Another palette/friend helps with this as well.

Take a sample, leave it the way it is.
Take another sample, sweeten it a few SG point
Take a third sample, go a few SG points past #2
Rinse / repeat until you get a sample thats "too sweet"

Then smell/taste each individual sample to discern which you like the best. If you find a range - say you like the 1.010 & the 1.015 both, you can do a smaller set of bench trials spanning just that smaller range... One at 1.011, 1.012, 1.013, 1.014, 1.015, then re-smell/re-taste & re-analyze.

When you find the SG that you like, you can calculate how much sugar it'll take to bring the whole batch to that level. Then, add 1/2 the amount of sugar you calculated that you'll need.

Then retest the SG on the whole batch, recalculate & add the remaining sugar - this helps, so you dont overshoot the sweetness and end up with an alcoholic syrup

When you cold stabilize, the acid will precipitate and crystalize, yes, needing you to rack off of the acid crystals. Tartaric acid, once crystallized, doesnt reintegrate into the wine at room temp so racking can be done rather safely as long as you manage to leave the crystals behind.

 

[Traverse]

Weird, my last post didn't get posted. Deezil, thanks for the awesome info. I'm going to do just that!

-Traverse The Universe