Raspberry Wine Started

[bmorosco]

How are you stabilizing this wine? adding sulfite and sorbate to a fermenting wine will only temporarily stop it if your lucky. The only ways to really stabilize at this SG is to plan ahead with a low tolerence yeast and high Sg at beginning, Add alchohol now to kill yeast or cold stabilize which in my opininion is risky. The other method is beyond a normal persons reach with Sterile filtration.

Not sure if I follow you.. The SG 1.090 and the yeast was lalvin 1116 ??

 

[Wade E]

You said you were going to stabilize at 1.010. If it is not done
fermenting then just adding sulfite and sorbate probably wont stop
it. It is very hard to stop a fermentation in process. Sorbate
and sulfite only prohibit refermentation, they will not stop
fermentation.

 

[bmorosco]

so just let it go until it stops?

 

[Wade E]

I would unless you like exploding bottles!

 

[Wade E]

I thought it could be done when I first started and was told this by
many people. Then I seen it happen to my friend in his basement. His
concrete floor is now purple.

 

[Waldo]

If you have any way to cold stabilize it you can stop the fermentation that way

 

[Wade E]

How many of you's have tried this. I have a friend who did this and
sorbated and sulfited it afterwards and the sweetened at an SG of 1.015
and it refermented on him. Maybe he didnt do it right but I'm not
willing to take the chance. I've heard others on a different forum have
this problem to and thats why I will not chance it. I'll use the Red
Star Cotes Des Blanc and start with a higher SG to accomplish this or
just back sweeten. The good Ole tried and true method.

 

[smurfe]

How many of you's have tried this. I have a friend who did this and sorbated and sulfited it afterwards and the sweetened at an SG of 1.015 and it refermented on him. Maybe he didnt do it right but I'm not willing to take the chance. I've heard others on a different forum have this problem to and thats why I will not chance it. I'll use the Red Star Cotes Des Blanc and start with a higher SG to accomplish this or just back sweeten. The good Ole tried and true method.

Thats what I did with mine. I recorded an SG of 1.090 for mine to start. I forgot to add the difference for the temperature of the must. After calculations I realize I had a starting SG of 1.102 I used the Red Star Cotes des Blanc yeast so I should be right where I want to be on my batch hopefully.


Bmorosco, don't worry if you were wanting a sweeter wine. You can let it ferment to dry, stabilize and then sweeten without the worry of re-fermentation. Well, I guess I should say there is a chance it could but the chance is much lower.


Letting ferment to dry and sweetening and stopping a fermentation at a specific SG is 2 different things. When you ferment to dry your wine has pretty well used up all of the live and active yeast. The sorbate and sulfite can then kill the few remaining active yeast.


If there is still strong fermentation in process, it is much tougher to accomplish this. You risk re-fermentation or using too much sulfite which can give a foul taste and odor to your wine.


As Wade says, the importance of the yeast used factors this. Each strain has its own work ethic. Some work harder and longer, some not so hard or so long. The Cotes des Blanc yeast will die off and stop fermenting much quicker than the Lavin strain you used. The Lavin is a good yeast for dry reds.


As Wade says, it would be best to ferment to dry, stabilize, degas, and sweeten to taste. You should be fine as this is actually a preferred method for many to start with.


Smurfe

Edited by: smurfe

 

[OGrav]

To help clarify, sorbate interrupts the reproductive cycle of the yeast. If you add in the middle of an active fermentation there are still plenty of live yeast in solution to continue eating sugar.

 

[bmorosco]

Ok I understand Now..

 

[smurfe]

I am getting close to racking from the primary to glass. With these fruit wines, do you do like with the kits and not top up at this point? I am sure I have enough liquid in the primary to fill the carboy. Should I leave some head space and put the remaining liquid in a wine bottle ortwoand continue to ferment? If I do that, do I need to leave some head space in the wine bottles I am fermenting in? I don't see or foresee any foaming at this point. I can see leaving some head space to be able to degass or room to add oak if used. On that point, do I want to add my oak as soon as I rack to glass or wait until I stabilize the wine and age it on oak?


Thanks


Smurfe

Edited by: smurfe

 

[NorthernWinos]

I have never made a kit...so can't compare....Sounds like you got it under control....I always leave a bit of headspace after the first racking to glass...learned that from experience..once a wine still had some fermenting going and had some go 'over-board'.

I also put some in wine bottles like you plan on doing...leave a little headspace there too [just incase]...put on air-locks and use that for topping up after other rackings.

Think we are all learning the lesson 'Law of Displacement' ....that you need a little headspace if you are going to put a 24 inch spoon handle [or anything else]in there to stir in your oak chips and Super-Kleer KC....etc....

Smurfe..How about some photos

 

[smurfe]

I have never made a kit...so can't compare....Sounds like you got it under control....I always leave a bit of headspace after the first racking to glass...learned that from experience..once a wine still had some fermenting going and had some go 'over-board'.

I also put some in wine bottles like you plan on doing...leave a little head space there too [just incase]...put on air-locks and use that for topping up after other rackings.

Think we are all learning the lesson 'Law of Displacement' ....that you need a little headspace if you are going to put a 24 inch spoon handle [or anything else]in there to stir in your oak chips and Super-Kleer KC....etc....

Smurfe..How about some photos

Thanks for the info, I am a little confused by the directions on the can as opposed to how kit wines are made. With the kit wines, you rack from primary to glass, you DO NOT top up and leave room mainly for when you stir the wine to degass. According to the directions from the Vintner's Harvest can you top up when you rack to glass. Here is a copy of what bmorosco posted on another thread pertaining to the directions from Vintner's Harvest.

1. 
   <LI>Sanitize all equipment and utensils with bisulphite solution.
   (See note at end of directions for making a bisulphite solution).
   <LI>Put straining bag in fermenter, add fruit and tie off bag. Except Apple and Elderberry that have no fruit pieces.
   <LI>Add all ingredients as directed on can label, excluding those with an "*” which will be added later. Add solution of sodium bisulphite (not powder form) and stir well to make sure sugar is dissolved.
   <LI>Cover with a damp cloth or fine mesh fabric and let sit over night to allow So2 to be released.
   <LI>Sprinkle yeast on top of must. Temperature should be between 70-80° F.
   <LI>Next day, gently stir top half of "must" mindful not to stir sediment at bottom. Repeat daily until specific gravity lowers to 1.040 (4 or 5 days).
   <LI>When gravity reads 1.040, remove bag of fruit. Press and strain juice from pulp and discard pulp. Rack "must" into secondary vessel, top up with water to minimize air space. Attach fermentation lock.
   <LI>Rack wine again (3 to 4 weeks) when gravity reads 1.010 to 1.000. Add 1 tsp. bisulphite solution per gallon of must.*
   <LI>After wine is clear (2 or 3 months) stabilize with potassium sorbate to prevent renewed fermentation, sweeten to taste if too dry. Enhance flavor and aroma with natural fruit flavor at this time if desired. Bottle.
   <LI>Wine can be consumed at this point but will benefit with aging of 6 months to one year. </LI>

I am approaching Step 7 by this list. I am also using the Red Star Cotes des Blanc yeast so I don't know when it is going to "fizzle out" as apposed to fermenting to dry like the average wine kit does. If I leave headspace, I don't want to take the chance of the wine stopping its fermentation and oxidizing the wine.
I should of added oak to the primary and I could of alleviated this problem to an extent. If I had a starting SG of 1.100 with this wine and used the Cotes des Blanc yeast, when can I expect fermentation to be complete? It will not go to dry will it? Any input will be appreciated. Also, don't really know what to post a picture of yet, it is still in the primary.


Thanks as always


Smurfe

Edited by: smurfe

 

[NorthernWinos]

I see what you mean....I would think that you would top-up till you know the fermentation is done....and...I would guess the S.G. would reach 1.010 to 1.000 before 3-4 weeks as they said.

We rack the first time to the glass and leave a small headspace [for possible over-flow] and rack again when we see sediment...sometimes in a week or so..then top-up.

I have just started adding oak to most all the wines...I do that on about the second racking and only leave it in for a week or so and rack again...still don't know how much to use and how long to leave it in.Last year I oaked a Chokecherry and it might have been too much for too long...now after over a year in the bottle it is awesome.

When I put in the Super-Kleer I have now learned to remove some wine, do the stir thing and add the wine back.We rack our wines a lot and have never degassed any...maybe the altitude or the many rackings have gotten the gas naturally out of the wines.

I saw gas in the only wine I made with pulp in a straining bag and Bentonite in the Primary...it was a Pineapple/Banana/Apple...I saw a few little bubbles going up the sides of the carboy...we did the usual amount of rackings and it was fine...very nice and clear after the Super-Kleer KC treatment.

We like our wine dry, so have no say on when your fermentaion is finished using Côte des Blancs yeast.I am going to try that yeast on an Apple Cider to try to have it finish a bit sweeter.

All my fruit wines are made with natuaral juice that I have steam extracted from our own fruits..it is usually quite clear and pulp free....so I have not much experience with the pulp effects on wines...but will be learning when I get the BlackBerry, Blueberry and Black Currant Vintners Harvest Fruit Bases, so anxious to try them.......so will be interested in following this Thread to see how yours and others finish it out.

I would think..just use your knowledge and instinct from your other wine making experiences and continue along in your usual way.I have only made fruit wines from scratch and haven't had any popping corks or problems like that...so far...so good.Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[bmorosco]

Just an update.......................Im still waiting for it to clear

Looks great though....

 

[smurfe]

An update on mine. I racked my batch yesterday. Took an SG reading and it was 0.990. The wine has fermented to dry. I had hoped using the Cotes des Blanc yeast the fermentation would of stopped with a slightly sweet wine. My starting SG was 1.102.I took a taste and it is definitely dry. I still see some active fermentation going as well. Oh well, guess I will be back sweetening this one.


bmorosco, how long has your been in the clearing stage? That is where mine is now. Did you use any clearing agents or are you letting nature do its thing?


Smurfe

 

[NorthernWinos]

Started a Black Curant 2 days ago and pitched the yeast yesterday PM...it is starting to ferment already...smells yeasty already...will really smell like bread tomorrow.

I found the instructions kind of odd too...for the 5 gallon batch it said to add the 96 oz. can of juice and 6 cans of water to make 5 gallons.....at 96 ounces X 7 total cans that adds up to 672 ounces, a tad more than 5 gallons already.....then they wanted 12 1/2 pounds of sugar....that would have made way more than 5 gallons...that sugar makes some volume too.

To the primary I added the can of juice, then added 4 cans of water, 2 500 mil [or 16oz] bottles of WinExpert Red Grape Concnetrate and rinsed the bottles with water...then used 1 more can of water to melt 9 1/2 pounds of sugar in....That made about 5 gallons...But then the S.G. was up to 1.100, so I had to add a bit more water to drop the S.G. to 1.085-1.090 like they wanted....I left it at 1.090.

Hope my batch isn't too watered down....time will tell...it smells nice, kind of like raisins....hope we like it.

 

[bmorosco]

An update on mine. I racked my batch yesterday. Took an SG reading and it was 0.990. The wine has fermented to dry. I had hoped using the Cotes des Blanc yeast the fermentation would of stopped with a slightly sweet wine. My starting SG was 1.102.I took a taste and it is definitely dry. I still see some active fermentation going as well. Oh well, guess I will be back sweetening this one.


bmorosco, how long has your been in the clearing stage? That is where mine is now. Did you use any clearing agents or are you letting nature do its thing?


Smurfe

From advice on this forum...But I was tempted.... I am letting mother nature cook this one!

 

[bmorosco]

Started a Black Curant 2 days ago and pitched the yeast yesterday PM...it is starting to ferment already...smells yeasty already...will really smell like bread tomorrow.

I found the instructions kind of odd too...for the 5 gallon batch it said to add the 96 oz. can of juice and 6 cans of water to make 5 gallons.....at 96 ounces X 7 total cans that adds up to 672 ounces, a tad more than 5 gallons already.....then they wanted 12 1/2 pounds of sugar....that would have made way more than 5 gallons...that sugar makes some volume too.

To the primary I added the can of juice, then added 4 cans of water, 2 500 mil [or 16oz] bottles of WinExpert Red Grape Concnetrate and rinsed the bottles with water...then used 1 more can of water to melt 9 1/2 pounds of sugar in....That made about 5 gallons...But then the S.G. was up to 1.100, so I had to add a bit more water to drop the S.G. to 1.085-1.090 like they wanted....I left it at 1.090.

Hope my batch isn't too watered down....time will tell...it smells nice, kind of like raisins....hope we like it.

Waldo seems to be the expert with the currants....I would PM him and ask about that...

 

[bmorosco]

The wine is crystal clear and smells and tastes awsome I filtered and now will let set for another week and then off to bottling!!! Has a blush apperance in the glass!!! I will get a picture up asap...