Ready to begin

[ianPGApro]

Good afternoon everyone,

So I'm looking to start my first home wine journey. I have been researching everything for the last month or so and I'm now ready to let the games begin. I would love to hear anyone's advice in helping me achieve my desired outcome. I know its my first wine and I should not expect the world but I would like to do everything on my side to make it a delicious full body red with depth. Here are a few items I have been questioning or thinking over:

1. Fresh Grapes (if I can find them), juice concentrate or grape must and juice?

2. The Ultimate Vintner's wine making equipment kit looks to be a good starting point? It has the 6 gallon carboy and the 8 gallon fermenter.

3. I have also been thinking of getting a oak barrel for aging.

4. Anything else that I should be thinking of or anything I must do?

Thank you so much!!

Ian

 

[Johnd]

For your first go round, maybe consider doing a really nice kit wine first, getting the equipment package you mentioned, a barrel is a good move early in your journey, and get the hang of winemaking before jumping into grapes. There's more to the grapes than meets the eye, get a little experience, make some nice wine, attack the grapes next fall would be my best advice.

 

[ianPGApro]

For your first go round, maybe consider doing a really nice kit wine first, getting the equipment package you mentioned, a barrel is a good move early in your journey, and get the hang of winemaking before jumping into grapes. There's more to the grapes than meets the eye, get a little experience, make some nice wine, attack the grapes next fall would be my best advice.

Thanks!! I knew the "fresh" grape method would be a little much but I'm down to attempt anything. I was looking at wine grapes direct at the 2017 Cab Sav frozen grape must. It looks like a good option and I would still like to have the skins rather than just a juice only option.. Have you heard how this is or would you recommend any other providers?

 

[Johnd]

Thanks!! I knew the "fresh" grape method would be a little much but I'm down to attempt anything. I was looking at wine grapes direct at the 2017 Cab Sav frozen grape must. It looks like a good option and I would still like to have the skins rather than just a juice only option.. Have you heard how this is or would you recommend any other providers?

Depending upon your location, frozen must can be your best option, it’s nearly every bit as good as fresh grapes, but your grapes are already crushed and destemmed, you just thaw. You can do frozen must year round, Brehm typically stocks and ships many varietals.
If you go this route, you’ll still have most of the challenges of grape winemaking. To do this properly, you’ll need to be prepared with a refractometer to check and make BRIX adjustments (made with either sugar or acidulated water), as well as a reliable pH meter so you can check / adjust pH / TA (with either tartaric acid or K carbonate). Both of these need to be adjusted prior to yeast inoculation. Punch down tool and temp. control are a must during AF, so make sure you have both. Hydrometer readings will guide you through fermentation, you’ll need yeast nutrients like Fermaid K & O, and you’ll need to have malolactic bacteria, mlb starter, and mlb nutrients on hand as well for malolactic fermentation. The things I mentioned will probably not come in your starter kit. If you can get those things in your grasp, and this advice platform, you can make wine from grapes. It’d be really good if you read up on the topic before attempting it.

How’s that sound Finchy? (Sorry, couldn’t resist)

 

[ianPGApro]

Depending upon your location, frozen must can be your best option, it’s nearly every bit as good as fresh grapes, but your grapes are already crushed and destemmed, you just thaw. You can do frozen must year round, Brehm typically stocks and ships many varietals.
If you go this route, you’ll still have most of the challenges of grape winemaking. To do this properly, you’ll need to be prepared with a refractometer to check and make BRIX adjustments (made with either sugar or acidulated water), as well as a reliable pH meter so you can check / adjust pH / TA (with either tartaric acid or K carbonate). Both of these need to be adjusted prior to yeast inoculation. Punch down tool and temp. control are a must during AF, so make sure you have both. Hydrometer readings will guide you through fermentation, you’ll need yeast nutrients like Fermaid K & O, and you’ll need to have malolactic bacteria, mlb starter, and mlb nutrients on hand as well for malolactic fermentation. The things I mentioned will probably not come in your starter kit. If you can get those things in your grasp, and this advice platform, you can make wine from grapes. It’d be really good if you read up on the topic before attempting it.

How’s that sound Finchy? (Sorry, couldn’t resist)

Thanks for all the info !! I will get the refractometer and the pH meter. Here are the items they say that come with the grapes:
5g Rockpile Yeast
5g Go- Ferm
5g Ferm- Aid K
5g Opti Red
7g FT Rouge Tannin
20g Oak Blend

I have been reading a lot, the only problem that I find is everyone starts differently and there seems to be thousands of variations of ways to go about the process. So I'm just trying to make sure I start correctly and then I will be able to then know my direction better.

 

[meadmaker1]

You ve done well to research as you have. Your statements are believable as you've realized the variations in processes folks use to make the same products.
Notice some things are always the same.
Some type of yeast
Some form of sugar
Some thing to make it in
And keeping things clean.
After that a hydrometer to track progress
Additives like yeast neutreants, acid adjustments, and test equipment.
I would recomend starting economically. Do something you aren't afraid to be brave with. I don't do kits but have read the acid and ph are adjusted for you, at least to a point, to create a predictable result. Fruit wine like dragon blood is my go to recommendation. It will take you through the necessary steps and give you a pleasant product with inexpensive readily available ingredients.
As you make your way you will discover things that work for you or that don't. After that the reasons for the variations in the process will be more obvious. In addition you will have a working knowledge of the process and a better idea of what challenges a grape batch will present and start you thinking about how you will address them.

 

[Johnd]

You ve done well to research as you have. Your statements are believable as you've realized the variations in processes folks use to make the same products.
Notice some things are always the same.
Some type of yeast
Some form of sugar
Some thing to make it in
And keeping things clean.
After that a hydrometer to track progress
Additives like yeast neutreants, acid adjustments, and test equipment.
I would recomend starting economically. Do something you aren't afraid to be brave with. I don't do kits but have read the acid and ph are adjusted for you, at least to a point, to create a predictable result. Fruit wine like dragon blood is my go to recommendation. It will take you through the necessary steps and give you a pleasant product with inexpensive readily available ingredients.
As you make your way you will discover things that work for you or that don't. After that the reasons for the variations in the process will be more obvious. In addition you will have a working knowledge of the process and a better idea of what challenges a grape batch will present and start you thinking about how you will address them.

Keith said it well, you’re in a good spot to give it a good effort, and you’ll have help here.

If you have the ability to run pH, TA, and BRIX tests, and have the needed chems on hand for adjusting, you can get off to a good start.

Get a small pack (2.5 g) of VP-41 malolactic bacteria, a small pack of ACTI-ML (50 g), and some Opti-Malo nutrients, and you’ll be prepared for MLF.

 

[Scooter68]

I can only add to the above one thing. Get TWO hydrometers. Most of us have broken one or two along the way and almost ALWAYS during a ferment.

My nickname is Murphy and I'm an optimist.

 

[CK55]

I can only add to the above one thing. Get TWO hydrometers. Most of us have broken one or two along the way and almost ALWAYS during a ferment.

My nickname is Murphy and I'm an optimist.

Ive dropped my hydrometer 10x and it still hasnt cracked, i guess im lucky. Its been through over 1000 beer batches and 3 wine batches.

 

[meadmaker1]

Ive dropped my hydrometer 10x and it still hasnt cracked, i guess im lucky. Its been through over 1000 beer batches and 3 wine batches.

Ive not broken one since ive gotten two

 

[Scooter68]

Ive not broken one since ive gotten two

See ! Having two is like magic. You don't break one unless you only have one. lol

I have broken one and it wasn't by dropping. I was holding two things in one hand and pushed the hydrometer against the side of the sink as I moved something. Now that I have two, that hasn't happened again. BUT I have broken a small glass wine thief and cracked my sampling tube.

 

[CK55]

See ! Having two is like magic. You don't break one unless you only have one. lol

I have broken one and it wasn't by dropping. I was holding two things in one hand and pushed the hydrometer against the side of the sink as I moved something. Now that I have two, that hasn't happened again. BUT I have broken a small glass wine thief and cracked my sampling tube.

lol, yeah, ironically i havent really broken anything except in beer making or building computers.

 

[Scooter68]

I gave up building computers when folks like Dell let you customize it, guarantee it and ship to me in a week or less. Built my first PC in 89 ? 32MB hard drive Wooooo!

 

[CK55]

I gave up building computers when folks like Dell let you customize it, guarantee it and ship to me in a week or less. Built my first PC in 89 ? 32MB hard drive Wooooo!

I built all mine untill this one because prices went stupid and it was cheaper to buy.

 

[ianPGApro]

Keith said it well, you’re in a good spot to give it a good effort, and you’ll have help here.

If you have the ability to run pH, TA, and BRIX tests, and have the needed chems on hand for adjusting, you can get off to a good start.

Get a small pack (2.5 g) of VP-41 malolactic bacteria, a small pack of ACTI-ML (50 g), and some Opti-Malo nutrients, and you’ll be prepared for MLF.

Thank you for this! I have been spending a lot of time learning about the fermentation process and what balances I will use or at least what I will let the grapes will tell me I have been very interested in the yeasts.. Do you ever blend any of the yeasts? Or do you have any that you think are superior ?

Any of you listen to GuildSomm? They have some really good podcasts that have crazy good information from some of the top wineries about their process and what they think is important or not.

 

[Johnd]

I'm personally fond of BM 4x4 for the big red wines that I do, which is most of what I do. This year, however, the plan is to half with BM 4x4, and half with D254, and blend the wines as they go into the barrel for aging. RC 212 is also a good yeast choice for reds, and there are many others as well. If you go to the Lallemand yeast website, there's lots to read there about the different yeast characteristics and tendencies.

 

[ianPGApro]

So I'm almost ready to transfer and be done with fermentation. My readings from my Refractor and Hydromertor at the beginning were good but today getting down to crunch time they did not match. The hydrometer says 1.000 and 0 brix and my refractor says 7-8 brix.. Who should I believe? I have used my refractor almost every day and have seen a gradual 3 to 4 brix drop a day. I tossed the yeast on 9/17 and it has been a beautiful process so far. I did a 3 day 82 degrees ferment and then went to 72. Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

 

[sour_grapes]

Trust the hydrometer. The presence of alcohol changes the refractive index of the solution. There are ways to compensate (see below), but the reading from your hydrometer is the correct one.

http://valleyvintner.com/Refrac_Hydro/Refract_Hydro.htm

 

[Scooter68]

Lesson one from measuring fermentation progress = A refractometer is worthless once the fermentation starts.

That lesson is repeated on this site about once a month. Stick to measuring the SG with a hydrometer and you'll do fine.

 

[ianPGApro]

Trust the hydrometer. The presence of alcohol changes the refractive index of the solution. There are ways to compensate (see below), but the reading from your hydrometer is the correct one.

http://valleyvintner.com/Refrac_Hydro/Refract_Hydro.htm

Lesson one from measuring fermentation progress = A refractometer is worthless once the fermentation starts.

That lesson is repeated on this site about once a month. Stick to measuring the SG with a hydrometer and you'll do fine.

Thank y’all! Okay, I have pressed and have let the gross lees settle and now ready to rack and start the MLF process. Can anyone help me with my measurements (I don’t have a nice scale but could get one if I have to) ?? As everyone knows the malolactic culture packages have a lot of product.. anyone have a simple procedure for me to follow??

Here is what I have/had:
-Started with 5.25 in frozen Cab Sav must.
-after pressing I look to have around 3.5 gallons of juice. With about 2 inches of dead lees.

Ingredients:
1 pouch of Vinaflora CH35 (66 gal)
5 grams- Acti-ML
6 grams- Opti Malo Plus

I know it roughly says 1 gram of Ml bacteria you will add 20 grams of ML nutrient, acti-ML. I know it’s a little late know but I could overnight/ drive tomorrow to get any ingredients if I must. I pressed Friday night around 9pm est.

What do you think I should do??

Thanks !!!