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[ianPGApro]

Anyone???

Okay, I have pressed and have let the gross lees settle and now ready to rack and start the MLF process. Can anyone help me with my measurements (I don’t have a nice scale but could get one if I have to) ?? As everyone knows the malolactic culture packages have a lot of product.. anyone have a simple procedure for me to follow??

Here is what I have/had:
-Started with 5.25 in frozen Cab Sav must.
-after pressing I look to have around 3.5 gallons of juice. With about 2 inches of dead lees.

Ingredients:
1 pouch of Vinaflora CH35 (66 gal)
5 grams- Acti-ML
6 grams- Opti Malo Plus

I know it roughly says 1 gram of Ml bacteria you will add 20 grams of ML nutrient, acti-ML. I know it’s a little late know but I could overnight/ drive tomorrow to get any ingredients if I must. I pressed Friday night around 9pm est.

What do you think I should do??

Thanks !!!

 

[Johnd]

Anyone???

Okay, I have pressed and have let the gross lees settle and now ready to rack and start the MLF process. Can anyone help me with my measurements (I don’t have a nice scale but could get one if I have to) ?? As everyone knows the malolactic culture packages have a lot of product.. anyone have a simple procedure for me to follow??

Here is what I have/had:
-Started with 5.25 in frozen Cab Sav must.
-after pressing I look to have around 3.5 gallons of juice. With about 2 inches of dead lees.

Ingredients:
1 pouch of Vinaflora CH35 (66 gal)
5 grams- Acti-ML
6 grams- Opti Malo Plus

I know it roughly says 1 gram of Ml bacteria you will add 20 grams of ML nutrient, acti-ML. I know it’s a little late know but I could overnight/ drive tomorrow to get any ingredients if I must. I pressed Friday night around 9pm est.

What do you think I should do??

Thanks !!!

If you decide to do MLF, the procedure is pretty simple, as the producers have "right - sized" the packaging. Most dry MLB (the small packs for 66 gallons) come in 2.5 g size. The instructions have you adding 20 g of ACTI-ML for each gram of MLB, so the math says to use 2.5 x 20 = 50 g of ACTI-ML, and lo and behold, ACTI-ML comes in 50 g packages. Simply mix the MLB and ACTI-ML into 250 ml of distilled water (chlorine free is important!!), stir it well until everything is completely dissolved, let it sit the designated period of time, give it a last stir and dump it in. Mix it into your wine very well, then you can add your Opti-Malo, and stir it in very well (thief a little wine out of the carboy to mix it with, then put it in). Make sure it's well topped up, air lock it, and you'll be off to the races.

 

[ianPGApro]

If you decide to do MLF, the procedure is pretty simple, as the producers have "right - sized" the packaging. Most dry MLB (the small packs for 66 gallons) come in 2.5 g size. The instructions have you adding 20 g of ACTI-ML for each gram of MLB, so the math says to use 2.5 x 20 = 50 g of ACTI-ML, and lo and behold, ACTI-ML comes in 50 g packages. Simply mix the MLB and ACTI-ML into 250 ml of distilled water (chlorine free is important!!), stir it well until everything is completely dissolved, let it sit the designated period of time, give it a last stir and dump it in. Mix it into your wine very well, then you can add your Opti-Malo, and stir it in very well (thief a little wine out of the carboy to mix it with, then put it in). Make sure it's well topped up, air lock it, and you'll be off to the races.

So my problem is I only have 5 grams of Acti-ML... and seeing the 2.5 grams of MLB works for 66 gallons I was afraid to add it all with also only having a little bit of Acti- ML.

Should I change any measurements? or adjust anything for what I have?

 

[Johnd]

So my problem is I only have 5 grams of Acti-ML... and seeing the 2.5 grams of MLB works for 66 gallons I was afraid to add it all with also only having a little bit of Acti- ML.

Should I change any measurements? or adjust anything for what I have?

Following the prescribed directions will maximize your chances for success. Having said that, you'll have to decide for yourself. I know that some folks here simply sprinkle the MLB into the wine, just like we do for yeast, and are successful. Personally, having had some challenging MLF's, my preference is to follow the protocol to the letter...........

What do you calculate your ABV as (based upon starting and finishing specific gravity readings), and what is the current pH of your wine? Those two things may sway your decision if they are a little out of range..........

 

[ianPGApro]

Following the prescribed directions will maximize your chances for success. Having said that, you'll have to decide for yourself. I know that some folks here simply sprinkle the MLB into the wine, just like we do for yeast, and are successful. Personally, having had some challenging MLF's, my preference is to follow the protocol to the letter...........

What do you calculate your ABV as (based upon starting and finishing specific gravity readings), and what is the current pH of your wine? Those two things may sway your decision if they are a little out of range..........

ABV was 14.9 and PH was 3.5..

 

[wineview]

would still like to have the skins rather than just a juice

You can buy a kit with a package of skins. Those kits tend to be a bit more expensive.

 

[Johnd]

ABV was 14.9 and PH was 3.5..

14.9 is up on the scale a bit, 3.5 is fine (really good wine numbers by the way!!!), I'd go with the whole program if it were me. You time to order the stuff you need and inoculate later this week, just make sure you don't add any sulfite to the wine until MLF is complete.

 

[Ajmassa]

@ianPGApro I responded with this in PM- but wanted to post here too. Because it’s just an opinion after all— and I don’t want it to be taken as fact and maybe someone else can chime in either agreeing or pointing out something I missed.

No worries dude. The Acti ML isn’t essential. It just helps it get started.
Once you open a pack of dry ML you can’t store and reuse it next year (they say). But you also can’t add too much either. If mine ide just mix all 2.5 g with the 5g of ACTI in a little water and add it to the wine. (Or even just .5g of it if your more
comfortable not adding enough for 66gal to 3gal even though it shouldn’t matter) Your not hurting anything. Just not going to the fullest extent to benefit it— which is fine. Many don’t even use it all. Plus you bought CH-35. One of the heavyweights. Should be perfect cool. VP41 is another.
Once you’ve racked off the gross lees I would just hydrate with the 5g of ACTI and pitch away Then dose with the appropriate amount of opti. Malo. Should be more than enough to get it goin.

 

[porkchopmessiah]

Good afternoon everyone,

So I'm looking to start my first home wine journey. I have been researching everything for the last month or so and I'm now ready to let the games begin. I would love to hear anyone's advice in helping me achieve my desired outcome. I know its my first wine and I should not expect the world but I would like to do everything on my side to make it a delicious full body red with depth. Here are a few items I have been questioning or thinking over:

1. Fresh Grapes (if I can find them), juice concentrate or grape must and juice?

2. The Ultimate Vintner's wine making equipment kit looks to be a good starting point? It has the 6 gallon carboy and the 8 gallon fermenter.

3. I have also been thinking of getting a oak barrel for aging.

4. Anything else that I should be thinking of or anything I must do?

Thank you so much!!

Ian

So..around me there's a place that does wine making where you chose you grapes(after a lot of free tastings of last seasons vintage) which is basically a "wine making for dummies"...I learned the process (they made use do all they grunt work they handle the chemistry), I bought the basic starter kit and am doing a fruit wine(strawberries from my yard). aside from the basics of your recipe, ask questions, start small....the folks here have been a great resource for me and yes you will make mistakes(I added 1.5 tsp Meta to my juice yesterday, but was able to save it based on the info here) but most can be overcome

 

[ianPGApro]

14.9 is up on the scale a bit, 3.5 is fine (really good wine numbers by the way!!!), I'd go with the whole program if it were me. You time to order the stuff you need and inoculate later this week, just make sure you don't add any sulfite to the wine until MLF is complete.

@ianPGApro I responded with this in PM- but wanted to post here too. Because it’s just an opinion after all— and I don’t want it to be taken as fact and maybe someone else can chime in either agreeing or pointing out something I missed.

No worries dude. The Acti ML isn’t essential. It just helps it get started.
Once you open a pack of dry ML you can’t store and reuse it next year (they say). But you also can’t add too much either. If mine ide just mix all 2.5 g with the 5g of ACTI in a little water and add it to the wine. (Or even just .5g of it if your more
comfortable not adding enough for 66gal to 3gal even though it shouldn’t matter) Your not hurting anything. Just not going to the fullest extent to benefit it— which is fine. Many don’t even use it all. Plus you bought CH-35. One of the heavyweights. Should be perfect cool. VP41 is another.
Once you’ve racked off the gross lees I would just hydrate with the 5g of ACTI and pitch away Then dose with the appropriate amount of opti. Malo. Should be more than enough to get it goin.

Thanks!! So far I have been very happy with the whole process. I have learned a lot and have discovered a good amount of items/ways I would do differently next time.

I ended up adding around half of the MLB so we will see how it goes. Taste and color are great, tannins are pretty close to where I feel like I would want them for a big red. What is your normal practice for stirring up the lees during MLF?? Once..twice a week? My next objective i guess will be to get a chromatography test kit or is there any other ways I can assure the MLF is completed?

 

[downdraft]

Thanks!! I knew the "fresh" grape method would be a little much but I'm down to attempt anything. I was looking at wine grapes direct at the 2017 Cab Sav frozen grape must. It looks like a good option and I would still like to have the skins rather than just a juice only option.. Have you heard how this is or would you recommend any other providers?

DOWNDRAFT here:
It would seem to me that for the first time you are emotionally prepared >)) to do the whole thing...meaning not a kit, but from scratch.
If your wine from the kit comes out "Great"....you can't brag fully because using a kit is designed not to learn, but to "sell wine-making materials" to a bigger audience...in kits its all done for you...but "from scratch"...you learn best from mistakes, are more careful as to procedure, and so forth.

TIP: 1. Check your yellow pages or brows the internet for both "grape grower Associations" and commercial grape growers in your neck of the woods (these guys can direct you to where you can get grapes; next, 2. Keep you eye on "sanitation" and as well as to what the "how-to" ad visors tell you ()Check out EC KRAUS (a supplier who has a tremendous following of amateur wine makers and answering their questions...for FREE.
If you follow instructions, become a "knick-Picker" for sanitation...you will be more satisfied...Don't rush it (as someone here advised)...and you then will really have something to "Crow" about!

 

[Ajmassa]

Couple things to help aid the MLF if compelled (also not essential)
-higher temps -in the mid 70°s
-stirring up the light lees into suspension 1-2x a week in case any malo gets buried unable to work
-And keep the carboy topped up since your not protected with So2 yet.
-I started stirring with a racking cane for this. Long spoon in a full carboy=overflowing wine
(Also it should be known that you could do none of this- and not use ACTI or optimalo— and still have a successful MLF. This just increases the chances for success)

Here’s my Red winemaking Bible. I refer to this frequently. Especially for these types of nitty gritty details. It’s legit. Detailed. Explains “what” AND why”. Good for grapes,frozen must, and fresh juice pails.
https://morewinemaking.com/web_files/intranet.morebeer.com/files/wredw.pdf

 

[Johnd]

My next objective i guess will be to get a chromatography test kit or is there any other ways I can assure the MLF is completed?

A chromotography testing setup will certainly be handy for telling when you're done, there are also some test strips available that can give you more detailed readings about how much malic acid is left in your wine, they are a little pricey.......

 

[mainshipfred]

Anyone???

Okay, I have pressed and have let the gross lees settle and now ready to rack and start the MLF process. Can anyone help me with my measurements (I don’t have a nice scale but could get one if I have to) ?? As everyone knows the malolactic culture packages have a lot of product.. anyone have a simple procedure for me to follow??

Seems you got all the help you need from others with regard to MLF. What I may want to add is you can but a small pocket scale from Target or elsewhere for about 20 bucks. Mine weighs to .01 grams and I use it all the time. Since the MLF bacteria is a little pricey I do measure out about 1.5 times the amount for each batch. Plus I've also had problem batches, more then I care to admit, so lately I have been following the recommended rehydration and nutrient protocol and so far so good.

 

[Countrygent]

Is it really necessary to test the MLF, or how important is it?

Presumably if the wine has fair numbers for Ph, TA, ABV after primary, not to much free sulphur, and it is carefully pitched with MLF, starter and nutrients, and then the usual activity of little torpedoes and a bit of CO2 can be seen around the neck of the carboy for a few weeks ... gets stirred, temperature is controlled around 70 degrees, taste is the best confirmation? As in, the MLF will run it’s course given the right conditions and time.

I’m thinking I don’t want the expense and rigamarole of chromatography if I can avoid it, if the wine gets quiet and tastes good about 3 or 4 weeks after pressing and MLF, then I will treat with meta according to Ph and put it to bed around 60 degrees.

Too risky? Bush league? I’m talking a six gallon batch from two frozen must buckets here, not a few tons and survival of a little vineyard or winery.

 

[mainshipfred]

Is it really necessary to test the MLF, or how important is it?

Presumably if the wine has fair numbers for Ph, TA, ABV after primary, not to much free sulphur, and it is carefully pitched with MLF, starter and nutrients, and then the usual activity of little torpedoes and a bit of CO2 can be seen around the neck of the carboy for a few weeks ... gets stirred, temperature is controlled around 70 degrees, taste is the best confirmation? As in, the MLF will run it’s course given the right conditions and time.

I’m thinking I don’t want the expense and rigamarole of chromatography if I can avoid it, if the wine gets quiet and tastes good about 3 or 4 weeks after pressing and MLF, then I will treat with meta according to Ph and put it to bed around 60 degrees.

Too risky? Bush league? I’m talking a six gallon batch from two frozen must buckets here, not a few tons and survival of a little vineyard or winery.

Good point about the 6 gallon to 55-60 gallon barrels. Not sure if that makes a difference or not. Even though chromotography is not a 100% indicator MLF is complete to me it's just fun. An $80.00 kit will last for years depending on how many wines you make a year. I'm letting mine sit for 3 months whether it's done or not.

 

[Countrygent]

Good point about the 6 gallon to 55-60 gallon barrels. Not sure if that makes a difference or not. Even though chromotography is not a 100% indicator MLF is complete to me it's just fun. An $80.00 kit will last for years depending on how many wines you make a year. I'm letting mine sit for 3 months whether it's done or not.

Maybe I’ll wait a bit longer. I do understand the approach that says “the more technical information we have, then the more able we are to understand how things went right or wrong, and apply to future winemaking.” In fact, in my mind that was the Great Leap Forward for much better wine all around the world - those pioneering Cali producers who brought a more scientific/laboratory/industrial tweaking approach and proved the French rigorous artisanal approach as sometimes haphazard. As in back before the 1970’s there was way more variation in vintages year to year. So When it comes to accumulating experience re: MLF I totally get that the more technical data I have, the more likely I am not to repeat demerits and able to replicate preferred outcomes. But I suppose I can be lazy and try and hide behind the label of “artiste”!

 

[cmason1957]

Here's the fear of just letting it sit for X long, then add KMeta. Look out 2 years or so, to when that KMeta has dissipated and the MLF hasn't completed and there is some bacteria still in the bottle and it decides to kick back off. Now you have a fizzy wine at a minimum and perhaps bottle bombs. If you go the wait 3 months, 4 months, whatever, no measure, no checking route then you probably ought to consider buying some Lysozyme and adding it. You can find it at some winemaking stores.

 

[Countrygent]

Here's the fear of just letting it sit for X long, then add KMeta. Look out 2 years or so, to when that KMeta has dissipated and the MLF hasn't completed and there is some bacteria still in the bottle and it decides to kick back off. Now you have a fizzy wine at a minimum and perhaps bottle bombs. If you go the wait 3 months, 4 months, whatever, no measure, no checking route then you probably ought to consider buying some Lysozyme and adding it. You can find it at some winemaking stores.

That makes sense to me ... fair warning and I’ll do some reading about the Lysozyme pros and cons. Thanks CM57!

 

[Carotz]

I can only add to the above one thing. Get TWO hydrometers. Most of us have broken one or two along the way and almost ALWAYS during a ferment.

My nickname is Murphy and I'm an optimist.

And don’t forget to test those hydometers