Red grape yield after pressing (Barbera/Sangiovese)

[Xlev]

Hi

I will be making wine from fresh grapes for the first time this year and Im just getting everything ready for september including making a recipe. I will be getting Barbera and Sangiovese grapes,does anyone have any experience of how much do you get from 100lb og grapes? I have ordered 110lb of each and would like to do a saignee if at all possible,while wanting to get 6 gallons of wine at the end. Does anyone have their own numbers of what they have achieved with say 100lb?

When I try to google this,I get very different numbers for each page I read.

Also if you have any other experience with these grapes you would like to share,please do

 

[cmason1957]

I haven't ever made either of these varietals, but my general experience is that 100 lbs of grapes yields something like 6 gallons of wine + some extra at press time. That extra is used (by me anyway) as top up wine for later rackings, it is usually something less than a gallon. How much is there depends somewhat on how hard you can presss the grapes after fermentation is completed. With just 100 lbs of grapes, you probably won't be able to do a saignee. You should end up with about 6 gallons of finished wine, perhaps a bit less.

As a data point, last year I got 300 lbs of grapes, I ended up with a 6 gallon + a 5 gallon + a 3 gallon carboy, total of 14 gallons, so a little bit lower than I expected. It was a fairly dry year around where these grapes came from.

 

[winemaker81]

Like Craig, I do not have experience with either varietal, so my information will be semi-useful.

Last fall I purchased eight 36 lb lugs of each Grenache and Tempranillo (288 lbs each). I used a maceration enzyme (Color Pro) which helps increase yield, fermented dry, then pressed using rice hulls. I grossed 21.5 US gallons of Grenache and 18 gallons of Tempranillo using a #40 basket press. I expect I've lost 1 to 1.5 gallons of each to post-pressing precipitation. You'll notice the I got ~20% difference in gross yield between two varietals.

These numbers vary from Craig's result for several reasons, among with are varietal types, local weather conditions, and grower specific actions (which we don't know). Additionally, I found that a maceration enzyme and especially rice hulls significantly increases yield, as does use of a real press (one that exerts significant pressure and sustains it).

So I'm in agreement with Craig -- you should get enough yield from each batch to fill a 23 liter carboy, but don't count on more than that.

One option is to draw of juice for saignée -- noting that drawing off 1 gallon is not sufficient as you won't have enough wine post-fermentation to fill a gallon jug. Make the wines, and be prepared to top up the 23 liter carboys with other wine if amounts do not work out.

Do you have the option to order more grapes, say another 20 lbs? That will make it much more likely to hit your goals.

I wish I had a better answer. Grapes are a natural product and Mother Nature cares not a bit for human interests.

 

[Snafflebit]

In 2022 from 118 lbs of grapes I had 31 L of Cabernet Sauvignon must. This produced a final wine volume of 23 L. This volume includes an additional 3 L of water to adjust the brix level.

Racking and filtering will bring this final volume down.

I know Barbera and Sangio can be light color, but I think it is better to keep all the juice in the wine. Making wine at this small scale is challenging enough. Enzymes will help gain juice and color

 

[Xlev]

Thank you all for your reply.So it seems like that 110 pounds will be just enough for 6gal. Im not sure if Incan order more at this point since I had to preorder in Mai,I will check.

But what are peoples thoughts on saignee,is it worthwile getting some extra grapes for that? Im trying to make the best possible wine I can,but not sure that always more is better?

 

[winemaker81]

But what are peoples thoughts on saignee,is it worthwile getting some extra grapes for that? Im trying to make the best possible wine I can,but not sure that always more is better?

The theory behind saignée is sound -- less juice to share what's extracted from the skins. As to exactly what difference it makes, no one has reported making both saignée and non-saignée wine from the same grape batch, so I can't say how much difference it really makes.

Something to consider -- if you can do saignée, do you want rose? I'm not a fan of rose, which is why I haven't seriously thought of using the technique.

As I mentioned above, maceration enzymes work wonders at exacting more of what's already in the grape. I've used Scottzyme Color Pro for 3 years, including kits with kit skin packs, and it really works to extract color and body.

A third option is skin packs. Throw a couple of skin packs into each batch, effectively doing the opposite of saignée, e.g., instead of removing juice to get more skin/juice contact, you're adding more skin to get more skin/juice contact.

 

[Xlev]

I dont usually buy rose but I like it when I get it served. Skin packs would be a good idea except you cant get any in europe. If you did go for saignee,how much would you do? 10% or 20%?

I have ordered some macerating enzymes as well so hoping to get some extra color extraction out of those.

 

[winemaker81]

If you did go for saignee, how much would you do? 10% or 20%?

I haven't done it, so hopefully one of the guys (@crushday, @NorCal ) who do saignée will chime in. IIRC, it's like 5% or 10%, but my memory may be faulty.

 

[NorCal]

I figure 15.5 lbs of grapes per finished gallon of wine as a general planning rule. This of course depends on the grapes.

I found that 5-6 gallons out of a 60 gallon net wine for light and medium body varietals makes a difference you can taste.

 

[Xlev]

Thank you for all your replies,I might ask for a few more pounds of grapes and take out about 10% to make a rose.

 

[winechef]

I take a few liters of the juice sweeten it and freeze and add the the wine to back sweeten it instead of simple syrup.

you said you'll have 100 pounds of both types. will you blend them

 

[distancerunner]

As a rule of thumb I calculate 14lbs. of grapes to the gallon. It can vary by as much as twenty percent depending on the vintage and pressing. Some years the grapes will be small and yield less juice.

A hard press will yield more wine. But at some point the press fractions will be bitter and tannic. Whether or not that portion will be usable depends on your goal for the wine.

Last year’s Sangiovese gave us roughly 126 gallons from 1400 lbs. That comes to 11 1/2 lbs. to the gallon. We did a soft press and didn’t use the hard press fractions. We tasted this morning. Fruit forward and very drinkable at nine months on light oak in stainless.

We are very happy.

 

[CDrew]

Last year’s Sangiovese gave us roughly 126 gallons from 1400 lbs. That comes to 11 1/2 lbs. to the gallon. We did a soft press and didn’t use the hard press fractions. We tasted this morning. Fruit forward and very drinkable at nine months on light oak in stainless.

We are very happy.

That's a great result and mirrors my experience with Sangiovese. It was good at one year right after bottling. It's still good now at almost 3 years old. That's a lot of wine, so drink up! I'm down to 3.5 cases of mine so hopefully it last another year or two. I agree too with the super light oak with Sangiovese. It sounds like you have a really nice wine.

 

[distancerunner]

That's good to know. We should have enough Zinfandel to last us for five or six years. Of course, we'll be giving some of it to our friends.

The debate is when to bottle. One of the minority partners, who has experience running a lab in a commercial winery albeit decades ago, suggested erring on the side of caution. His belief is that it is "safer in a bottle" and it's difficult to dispute that idea. I'd like to let it stay in bulk until after the crush this fall in hopes that it might improve. Our other majority partner is neutral.

 

[CDrew]

That's good to know. We should have enough Zinfandel to last us for five or six years. Of course, we'll be giving some of it to our friends.

The debate is when to bottle. One of the minority partners, who has experience running a lab in a commercial winery albeit decades ago, suggested erring on the side of caution. His belief is that it is "safer in a bottle" and it's difficult to dispute that idea. I'd like to let it stay in bulk until after the crush this fall in hopes that it might improve. Our other majority partner is neutral.

I don't think it matters that much. I always bottle in the fall after the next year's initial fermentation/press is done. It's for convenience, not for anything specific to winemaking. The harder part is then waiting an additional year before really starting to evaluate and drink it.

Just curious, how many in your partnership?

It's a different game with white wine. It's usually bottled in 3-6 months and we're drinking it by the following summer.

 

[sour_grapes]

Our other majority partner is neutral.

You have an older barrel as a majority partner??

 

[distancerunner]

I don't think it matters that much. I always bottle in the fall after the next year's initial fermentation/press is done. It's for convenience, not for anything specific to winemaking. The harder part is then waiting an additional year before really starting to evaluate and drink it.

Just curious, how many in your partnership?

It's a different game with white wine. It's usually bottled in 3-6 months and we're drinking it by the following summer.

You have an older barrel as a majority partner??

Five. The majority partners, one of whom is neutral on the subject of early bottling, made a little more than seventy percent of the investment in grapes and other materials. The minority partners are in at approximately fifteen, ten, and five percent each.

Last year a couple of other people helped with the crush. There is a chance they may be joining us this fall. The more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. Literally.