RJ Spagnols Sauv Blac - Clearing Problem

[FoxHound]

Hi,
I know this has been brought up a lot and i am pretty sure i am clued up on why its not clearing but i just have a few other questions. This is my first wine kit and I followed the instructions exactly (which is why it stuffed up!!!!). When I got to the point of stabilising and clearing I hand stirred it for 5 min after adding the various chemicals and then left it to clear (I didn’t even know what degassing meant at this stage ). After waiting for the clearing to happen for about a month I realised something was wrong. So I came on to this website and went on the RJ Spag website and realised that I probably did not degas it sufficiently which counteracted the kieselsol and chitosan. So I started to try degassing with a whip mounted to a drill and every time I did it the wine would give off about the same amount of bubbling and it didn’t seem to be reducing the CO2. So I went back and researched some more and learnt that degassing in cold temperatures is pretty much impossible. The temperatures here at the moment are around 14-20 degrees Celsius so clearly that was my problem. While it was fermenting I had the wine in a warmer area and it wasn’t winter by that stage so it didn’t affect the fermentation. So for the last few weeks I have moved it down stairs where its even colder than 16 degrees (leaving in colder temperatures is supposed to help clearing?). So my questions are, should I bulk age it and let it lose its CO2 and clear on its own but rack off the sediment before adding more Kmeta every 3 months. Also if I am bulk aging at low temperatures does that mean that the CO2 will take longer to leave on its own because the cold temperatures hold it in the wine? <?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><O></O>
Or, Do I warm the wine up to over 24 degrees and carry on degassing it until the CO2 is gone and then add more kieselsol and chitosan and clear and bottle?<O></O>
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Sorry if this has come off a little cynical because im not annoyed that this happened and it has not put me off wine making. In fact in some ways im glad it didn’t go perfectly, because I would have never learnt all this stuff and all the information has been really helpful and interesting. My girlfriend on the other hand doesn’t even want anything wine making related to be brought up anymore . I think this whole thing has put her off wine making all together.


Thanks


Peter<O></O>

 

[ibglowin]

Warm it up to at least 23C somehow. Brew belt, heating pad whatever. It won't clear and you can't degas it if its cold. You need to keep it warm for as long as it takes to clear. Try to degas it again one its good and warm. Try using a Vacuvin to assist in degassing. You may not need to add more fining agents. It may just start to clear on its own one its properly degassed and kept warm.

Welcome to the FVW forums!

 

[FoxHound]

Thanks Mike. Im sure i read somewhere that its good to store a wine at a colder temperature or even in a fridge. Is that once it is clear? Also i thought that the CO2 only affected the clearing agents and not the actual clearing.






Peter

 

[ibglowin]

Once a wine is degassed and properly clear a nice cool temp will allow it to age longer. CO2 affects clearing agents from reacting with the proteins etc that make a wine cloudy. Cold will slow down the reaction as well so it ultimately is a two pronged problem and solution.

 

[PeterZ]

Gas is always more soluble in cold liquid than it is in warm liquid. That's why it is important to get the wine to 23-25C for degassing. Also, the warmer the wine is the better it will clarify. There is a very complex formula that quantifies settling rate of particles in liquid, which I no longer have access to. However, one of the factors is the difference in density between the particles and the liquid. Warmer liquid is less dense, increasing the difference in density between the solids and liquid, thus increasing settling rate.

 

[FoxHound]

Thanks for the advice guys. I warmed it up over 24 degrees and degassed it. It is hard to tell whether all the gas has been removed but i degassed it twice with a whip. I will let it sit for a while and then rack off a portion of the sediment and then try adding some more clearing agents. Do you know what temperature the clearing agents need in order to function?

Peter

 

[v1rotate]

As Peter recommended, I'd keep it at 24'C for clearing.

 

[Wade E]

Despite what RJS site and directions say, warmer temps help the wine clear much better. I believe the directions say that cooler temps are ok for this process but over the years Ive found this to be quite the contrary. There has been many a time on the forums where a wine wouldnt clear and it was warmed up and within 24 hours of doing so it cleared right up.

 

[FoxHound]

hmmm thats interesting. Well to be fair the RJS directions do ask for quite high temps (15-19 degrees). i dont think 15 degrees is adequate though. Im wondering if perhaps i wait till it warms up here before i add more clearing agents. just so it doesn't prevent it from working. i dont have anything to keep it warm enough.

Peter

 

[Wayne1]

Guess you are in the heart of winter - send it up here to Florida and we'll warm it up quick in the August heat

 

[Wade E]

If you can put the carboy in a box with a light inside, I used to do this before I heard about brewbelts to warm them up. I personally would get a brewbelt though!

 

[FoxHound]

Thanks for the ideas. New Zealand is currently having a very cold winter. It would be great to send it to florida but i think the freight would be a little expensive I did find a place that sells heat pads and heat belts. Is a belt more effective.

 

[ibglowin]

Brew belts are specifically made for beer/wine making. Heating pads, are obviously not but they will work in a pinch.

 

[Wade E]

Brew belt work great and yes we all use them on glass for many years. The brew belt uses very little electric compared to a blanket and never shuts off like most heating blankets do after 1 hour

 

[FoxHound]

great thanks for the info. Sounds like thats the way to go. Plus i think my next batch will be done so that the clearing is done in summer when its a lot hotter

 

[FoxHound]

Hi, Just thought i would give a bit of an update. its getting a bit warmer here so i thought i would rack the wine (because i haven't done that yet since degassing). I had a try of it and i was surprised how watery it tasted. You could taste the alcohol and then just a watery wine kind of taste. Its a 12ltr kit so i appreciate its not a 15 or 18ltr but i wouldn't have thought if it tasted a little watery or thin now that it would get much better?
It should have been bottled now for about a month and your supposed to leave it for at least 3 months. Should it taste a lot better after a couple of months?

Thanks

Peter

 

[ibglowin]

Did you top off with water or a like wine? The downside of those 12L kits is that they all seem to be thin like you say. Topping off with water will just make things worse. It will taste better with another 3-6 months of bottle age but not any huge improvement more than likely.

 

[FoxHound]

Well i just followed the instructions which said to top up with water. Whether its a 10ltr or a 15ltr you are always going to need to top up so would you always top up with a similar wine?<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />

 

[ibglowin]

Yes, absolutely.

Always with a like/similar wine, never water.

 

[FoxHound]

It makes you wonder why they make 10-12 ltr kits. I cant think of many people who would want to make a thin wine. Im just wondering it there is any point bottling this batch because its just so watery. also should the carboy always be topped up so there istwo finger widths betweern the wine and the ridge at the top of the carboyor is it ok to have a bit of space after racking?


Peter