Second attempt at wine from grapes

[winemaker81]

I tasted the wine today and it seemed a little oxidized.

I agree with @Gilmango, with that little headspace, oxidation after 6 weeks doesn't seem likely. Note that wine cycles up and down during aging -- I've conducted testing in which a great tasting wine got kind of ugly, then went back to normal. I don't have an explanation for this behavior.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I tasted the wine today and it seemed a little oxidized. I added 1.64g of kmeta on 11/5, so it should have enough kmeta, ,,, This wine tasted really good until now.

You have a young wine, to get oxidation in a month you would have to have six plus inches of headspace. A combination of CO2, and other chemicals seems likely. Do you recognize reductive/ sulfur like notes/ mercaptan/ fried food notes?

I describe low level of acetaldehyde as pleasing. As the level increases it gives a burn in the back of the throat when swallowing. Very high and fast oxidation gives a nutty note/ sherry.

 

[Paulie vino]

Thanks for the advice so far. Rice guy, Im not an expert at detecting smells but the best comparison I can make is that it smells similar to a bottle that has been opened for a few days and is starting to oxidize. The taste is something similar to that as well.

Interestingly, the carboy in question has an old rubber stopper. I have 2 other 1 gallon carboys with silicon stoppers. All have the same airlock. The wine in the 1 gallon carboys with silicon stoppers seems to taste the same as it did a month ago, fruity and pleasant. The 5 gallon carboys with the rubber stopper is the one in question. Is it possible the rubber stopper is past it's useful life? I already replaced it with a silicon stopper just in case.

The wine in the gallon carboys does not have oak, but the 5 gallon carboy is question has an oak stick, so maybe like gilmango said it could be the oak.

Lots of variables to consider...

 

[vtoddw]

Thanks for the advice so far. Rice guy, Im not an expert at detecting smells but the best comparison I can make is that it smells similar to a bottle that has been opened for a few days and is starting to oxidize. The taste is something similar to that as well.

Interestingly, the carboy in question has an old rubber stopper. I have 2 other 1 gallon carboys with silicon stoppers. All have the same airlock. The wine in the 1 gallon carboys with silicon stoppers seems to taste the same as it did a month ago, fruity and pleasant. The 5 gallon carboys with the rubber stopper is the one in question. Is it possible the rubber stopper is past it's useful life? I already replaced it with a silicon stopper just in case.

The wine in the gallon carboys does not have oak, but the 5 gallon carboy is question has an oak stick, so maybe like gilmango said it could be the oak.

Lots of variables to consider...

I know it's a chunk of change, but in order to take the guess work out of free S02 it would be a good idea to invest in a Vinmetrica SC-300. I dropped $500 on one many years ago and I'm able to get exact readings on my sulphites which allows me to then make precise additions rather than following a general rule of 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons every racking. In regards to the off flavors, it's possible it's oxidation from pressing or acetobacter contamination from a fruit fly in the grape must of fermentation process, but you can't be sure just yet. It's best if you just process the wine as though all is well, take it all the way to bottling, wait another year or so and then judge whether it's flawed, because wine changes so much over the course of the bulk aging and bottling timeline that it's really tough to pass judgment on it until it has truly had time to age. Personally I'm finding that none of my wines 9ve made should really be consumed until they've spent at least 2 years in the bottle after 9 months of bulk aging. So right now my 2021 vintage is tasting great, but my 2022's are either too tart or have too much detectable oak flavor / smokiness. Patience is always the key, hope that helps.

 

[RylanJacobs]

Thanks for the advice so far. Rice guy, Im not an expert at detecting smells but the best comparison I can make is that it smells similar to a bottle that has been opened for a few days and is starting to oxidize. The taste is something similar to that as well.

Interestingly, the carboy in question has an old rubber stopper. I have 2 other 1 gallon carboys with silicon stoppers. All have the same airlock. The wine in the 1 gallon carboys with silicon stoppers seems to taste the same as it did a month ago, fruity and pleasant. The 5 gallon carboys with the rubber stopper is the one in question. Is it possible the rubber stopper is past it's useful life? I already replaced it with a silicon stopper just in case.

The wine in the gallon carboys does not have oak, but the 5 gallon carboy is question has an oak stick, so maybe like gilmango said it could be the oak.

Lots of variables to consider...

Paulie,

I would not worry too much at this point. As long as you limit your headspace and replaced the stopper, you are well on your way. As others have said, wine changes dramatically in this time period and may go through a down-cycle before it starts to taste good. I made a riesling earlier this year that was almost undrinkable until about the 3-month mark. Red wine will be even longer.

If you are trying to make the best wine you can, it is advisable to buy some chromatography paper so you can monitor MLF progression. With cooler temps, it is not uncommon for MLF to last a few months. When it comes time to add sulfites, you will most likely be okay with a 1/4 tsp per 5 gallons (50ppm) addition at each rack. 50ppm is likely to be more protection than you might need, but is well below detectable levels for taste. Home winemakers tend to have oxidative setups, and so the extra sulfite protection really does not hurt. I have attached a helpful chart.

I say to give it time, and keep us updated throughout the spring and next summer!

 

[Paulie vino]

Thanks for the replies everybody. The wine and the 5 gallon carboy seems to have developed some kind of a haze and the top half inch. It's hard to describe but If I shine a flashlight on the side it looks like oil floating on top of water but not that distinct. If I rock the car boy the haze gets dissolved into the wine. There's nothing floating on top like white mold so I'm not sure what this could be. Maybe it's just grape oils settling out. I'm not sure. I took a picture. You can kind of see the dividing line between the wine and the haze. And the picture it looks like the cowboy is very dirty but it's just residue on the inside from an almost wine volcano. The outside has some tape residue. Any idea what this haze is?

On a side note, one of the small one gallon carboys started to develop white mold. I think I forgot to add potassium metabisulfate to that carboy so I cleaned it out and added some. I took a picture. It's the second picture looking down into the neck of the carboy.

 

[RylanJacobs]

Thanks for the replies everybody. The wine and the 5 gallon carboy seems to have developed some kind of a haze and the top half inch. It's hard to describe but If I shine a flashlight on the side it looks like oil floating on top of water but not that distinct. If I rock the car boy the haze gets dissolved into the wine. There's nothing floating on top like white mold so I'm not sure what this could be. Maybe it's just grape oils settling out. I'm not sure. I took a picture. You can kind of see the dividing line between the wine and the haze. And the picture it looks like the cowboy is very dirty but it's just residue on the inside from an almost wine volcano. The outside has some tape residue. Any idea what this haze is?

On a side note, one of the small one gallon carboys started to develop white mold. I think I forgot to add potassium metabisulfate to that carboy so I cleaned it out and added some. I took a picture. It's the second picture looking down into the neck of the carboy.

I had a similar film on my riesling that I recently bottled. I'm not sure what it is, but I left it behind via careful racking.

I would advise racking at least one more time prior to bottling so you can get rid of it.

 

[Paulie vino]

Spring update...I added k meta since it was about 3 months since the last dose and did a taste test of the 5 gallon carboy and both 1 gallon carboys. The only difference between them is the 5 gallon is mostly free run and had an oak stick for 3 months, and the one gallon carboys are the mostly pressed wine. My initial impression that the wine in the 5 gallon carboy tastes more harsh, maybe a little burning in the throat. The one gallon carboys had less of that taste and were a little better but not what I expect a finished wine to be. I understand it needs more time to age and this is a good learning experience. I just hope that the wine continues to developed because the taste now is not so good.

Why does the wine in the 5 gallon carboy taste so much different from the 1 gallon carboys? Does it have to do with relative oxygen volume to wine? Could the one gallon carboys be aging faster?

 

[StimVino]

I tasted the wine today and it seemed a little oxidized. I added 1.64g of kmeta on 11/5, so it should have enough kmeta, I also pulled a sample when I racked on 11/5 which tasted good. After I tasted it today I changed out the bung from an old rubber one to a newer silicone bung with the same s style airlock. The airlock always had water in it. Headspace was never more than 1-2 inches in a 5 gallon carboy. I sprinkled a little kmeta on top just for some insurance and put the bung back on. Not sure what the problem is. This wine tasted really good until now. Any ideas?

I agree with Gilmango comments above and MLF may not have been complete. However, there is also a fair amount of lees in carboy from photo on 10/08. If this is the case, then I would rack off lees and be sure to top up. There is a also a point when you are oaking that the oak can take over and the taste starts going in the negative direction. Thats why its important to taste regularly unless I am certain that i have not added too much, as the case with cubes which in small portions can be left in until they loose their flavor