Second Year of Plantation Starting. How to prune?? Help please!

[daniyalsm]

So I went to the farm yesterday and took some pics. The grapes seem to be growing well. The Thompson, just like the previous growing season, are growing much faster than some other varieties such as King Ruby and Flame Seedless.

Some Thompsons are showing what appear to be future grape bunches.

I have some questions:

1. For now do I leave them to be and grow unchecked?

2. Do I select one cane for the future trunk and make it grow straight up? If so, which cane do I select?

3. What else do I need to do right now?

For question number 2, If I am to choose a future trunk, which one do I choose? Does it need to be the thickest one? Or the one that is growing from the top (the place where I pruned) or the one from the base?

Please feel free to add anything you would like. Thanks all

@grapeman

 

[grapeman]

First thing I would do is put in some small stakes to tie the vines to keep them straight. Bamboo is cheap and works well. Something about a half inch (maybe 1 cm) and 5 feet long works well. Push into the soil a foot or whatever you can get fairly easily. I would select one or two of the most vigorous shoots and get rid of the rest this year. Tie them to the stakes as they grow. The stakes should be tied to the wires to keep them from tipping over. Prune out the diseased shoots or begin spraying them for disease. The third picture and next to last pictures shows bad phomopsis or anthracnose (picture too small to be sure). Don't try to keep the flower clusters they will stunt the vines if you let the grapes grow this year.

 

[daniyalsm]

First thing I would do is put in some small stakes to tie the vines to keep them straight. Bamboo is cheap and works well. Something about a half inch (maybe 1 cm) and 5 feet long works well. Push into the soil a foot or whatever you can get fairly easily. I would select one or two of the most vigorous shoots and get rid of the rest this year. Tie them to the stakes as they grow. The stakes should be tied to the wires to keep them from tipping over. Prune out the diseased shoots or begin spraying them for disease. The third picture and next to last pictures shows bad phomopsis or anthracnose (picture too small to be sure). Don't try to keep the flower clusters they will stunt the vines if you let the grapes grow this year.

Thank you sir.

For tying, do I select only the 2 best ones or should I tie all of them?

As for getting rid of the others, that is to be done during dormancy (December-January) right?

All diseased canes need to be pruned immediately right?

Do I just cut the clusters off?

Here are closeups of the two photos:

Thank you!


@grapeman

 

[grapeman]

Keep the best two shoots and get rid of the rest now. That will allow those two to grow bigger. If possible get rid of the diseased canes now but if it is the only one then you can keep it and hope for the best. I am leaning towards phomopsis with those pictures as the lesions are fairly long and a split in the middle. Anthracnose is close but usually not as long of a lesion and it has a pit in the middle instead of a split. Either way a protective fungicide will help keep it from spreading. You will need to see what is label approved for your location and is effective for the intended diseases.

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman

One of my farm workers raised a concern that the plants might leak a lot of fluids if cut right now and cause damage to the plants, when I told him to cut everything except two best shoots.
Is his concern valid or will the plant handle it easily? The average forecast high temperature of the next 2 weeks is around 95F and the average low is around 70F.

Also someone told me to plant hybrid papaya plants between the grape rows. The distance between rows is 10 feet, so he suggested planting papayas in the center of the grape rows. Do you think this is ok, or will it cause too much competition?

 

[grapeman]

You can wait to remove the infected parts if they are afraid the vines will suffer, but they won't grow as tall and form a good trunk.

Here is a link to anthracnose http://fruit.cfans.umn.edu/grapes/pest/grapeipmguide/disease/anthracnose/

And here is one for phomopsis http://nysipm.cornell.edu/factsheets/grapes/diseases/phomopsis.pdf

 

[daniyalsm]

You can wait to remove the infected parts if they are afraid the vines will suffer, but they won't grow as tall and form a good trunk.

Here is a link to anthracnose http://fruit.cfans.umn.edu/grapes/pest/grapeipmguide/disease/anthracnose/

And here is one for phomopsis http://nysipm.cornell.edu/factsheets/grapes/diseases/phomopsis.pdf

They are pretty much laymen and have practically zero experience growing grapes.

Thank you very much for the links. Your help is always highly appreciated and acted upon.

Just one more question for now. Should we remove the infected parts only or should we remove the other shoots also (other than the 2 good ones to keep) right now.

 

[grapeman]

You want to grow a grape vine trunk or trunks, not shrubs. If you pruned back to 2 or three buds this spring you shouldn't have more than 2 or 3 shoots growing now. If it has many tops remove the smaller more crooked ones. If you leave 8 to 10 shoots growing now, none of them will grow a lot to make a trunk. Year two is for growing trunks. Year one you left most of them to grow to make strong roots, now you only want one or two so it can form a trunk. Don't worry about small shoots forming off the trunk this year they can be removed next springs pruning. If you have too many shoots before the trunk grows, they will keep all of them short and you won't get the trunk this year.

 

[daniyalsm]

Ok so today I did the sample pruning of all the shoots except for the two I possible future trunks. Please check the photos and see if I did it right. I have only done it on 2 plants and want to make sure this is what had to be done, before proceeding tomorrow.

I am not sure why pictures are rotated this way.

General view of the plant after pruning

A closer view at the pruning cuts

A closer look at the base of the two shoots that will be the future trunks

Can you please look at these pictures I took today and diagnose the disease. Whether it is anthracnose or phomopsis. Also the best course of action is pruning the diseased shoots and spraying with a fungicide right? Also what if all the growing shoots have it? Some of the possible future trunks also have the disease. Will they recover after spraying?

@grapeman

 

[grapeman]

You did a good job with the pruning. A nice clean cut at the shoot base helps minimize stubs and having new shoots regrow at that point later. If they do just rub them off with a stiff leather glove.
Those pictures look more like to phomopsis to me. Mancozeb products help protect the vine. To be effective it is used as a protective product and needs to begin applications as the vine begins to grow in the spring. Cut off the bad ones possible but you obviously can't get rid of them all. Begin a spray program earlier next year and you can gradually get rid of most of it.

 

[daniyalsm]

You did a good job with the pruning. A nice clean cut at the shoot base helps minimize stubs and having new shoots regrow at that point later. If they do just rub them off with a stiff leather glove.
Those pictures look more like to phomopsis to me. Mancozeb products help protect the vine. To be effective it is used as a protective product and needs to begin applications as the vine begins to grow in the spring. Cut off the bad ones possible but you obviously can't get rid of them all. Begin a spray program earlier next year and you can gradually get rid of most of it.

thank you the pruning cuts should be as close to the trunk as possible right? and when they are that close, it eliminates 100% chances of any future regrowth right?

Also no use spraying any fungicide now? Will the vines be ok if no sprays for an entire year?

As always thank you very much for your help!

 

[grapeman]

thank you the pruning cuts should be as close to the trunk as possible right? and when they are that close, it eliminates 100% chances of any future regrowth right?

Also no use spraying any fungicide now? Will the vines be ok if no sprays for an entire year?

As always thank you very much for your help!

Close yes. It helps keep regrowth down but not 100%. That's why I said to rub off any future growth at that point. If you look at the picture you showed you can see a couple tiny buds on either side of the cut. Those may grow but rub off easily if they begin to.

Not sure what diseases you have their, but you should continue to spray for them because the vines may get them under the right conditions. Observe any precautions listed on the spray labels such as not spraying when temps are about 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[daniyalsm]

I was at the vineyard yesterday and took some pictures. The Thompson variety has grown very vigorously, with many plants having both shoots above the support wires. I had two different applications of fungicides via spray. First I got them sprayed with Difenoconazole and Azoxystrobin and after 4 days I got them sprayed with Mancozeb and Metalaxyl. I believe the disease has been controlled for now.


I have 5 different varieties growing. 2 of them require spur pruning, while 3 require cane pruning.

First question is what to do for cane pruning varieties whose 2 shoots have already exceeded the top two wire of posts?

For spur pruning varieties, should I prune back to only 1 shoot instead of two and then take two lateral shoots growing from main shoot (future trunk) and place them on the wire to grow in opposite directions?

Also there is one other thing that has got me confused. I have watched some videos on cane pruning and they all tell to leave two canes, one for each side of the wire. I then searched online and found this (http://www.petercoppin.com/factsheets/fruit/grapepr.pdf). According to this, my cane pruned varieties require about 4-10 canes per plant. What does this mean?

My wire setup is similar to:

How can I have more than 2 canes per plant? Where will they go?

Please help me on this! @grapeman


Pictures from yesterday:

 

[grapeman]

I was at the vineyard yesterday and took some pictures. The Thompson variety has grown very vigorously, with many plants having both shoots above the support wires. I had two different applications of fungicides via spray. First I got them sprayed with Difenoconazole and Azoxystrobin and after 4 days I got them sprayed with Mancozeb and Metalaxyl. I believe the disease has been controlled for now.


I have 5 different varieties growing. 2 of them require spur pruning, while 3 require cane pruning.

First question is what to do for cane pruning varieties whose 2 shoots have already exceeded the top two wire of posts?

Head the shoots at the wire. That will allow several shoots to grow from that point and you can lay them and tie onto the wire in both directions. You can tie more than one on each side. You will leave those as the fruiting canes next year. Next year let a few new ones grow along with the fruiting canes that will be the bearing canes the following year and so on.

For spur pruning varieties, should I prune back to only 1 shoot instead of two and then take two lateral shoots growing from main shoot (future trunk) and place them on the wire to grow in opposite directions?

Yes you can do that.

Also there is one other thing that has got me confused. I have watched some videos on cane pruning and they all tell to leave two canes, one for each side of the wire. I then searched online and found this (http://www.petercoppin.com/factsheets/fruit/grapepr.pdf). According to this, my cane pruned varieties require about 4-10 canes per plant. What does this mean?

You only need more than two shoots if it is a low yielding variety.

My wire setup is similar to:



How can I have more than 2 canes per plant? Where will they go?

The extra canes can simply grow along with the main one. If I have a long node spacing of say 8 to 10 inches, sometimes it takes an extra one or two to get the desired crop load to keep the vine from getting too vigorous.

 

[daniyalsm]

Hello sir. I have a question. I pruned one thompson grapevine to just 1 main trunk instead of two as previously done. Prior to pruning, both of this grapevines shoots were more than 10 feet or so.
Now I want to know whether I should prune all the side shoots emerging from this shoot (future trunk). I already pruned the side shoots on the bottom part of the trunk, however there are a significant bit on the upper end. I am confused because I don't know if the plant will be adversely affected by lack of photosynthesis If I prune all the side shoots.

Attached image

Also do you have any idea what is causing these leaves to curl up and have a dried rough feel to them.

Also what kind of grape cluster is this? I saw a few of these and they looked like they were growing on the tendrils

@grapeman Thank you in advance

 

[grapeman]

You should leave the upper shoots on the vine growing so you get plenty of food build up in the vine and roots. It looks pretty good like that. You select the shoots you want to keep later when you prune again.

The leaves could be affected by insect feeding such as mites on the underside. Not sure what you have there for insect pests. There is also the possibility of herbicide damage which can cause cupping of the leaves. Some form of dicamba can do that and that also affects the flowers at bloom and can cause clusters like that. Two herbicides you want nowhere near a vineyard are dicamba and 2,4-D . It doesn't need to touch the vine as it can cause a cloud under the right conditions and affect the vineyard. Check your herbicides and see what else might be sprayed within a quarter to half mile.

 

[daniyalsm]

I have a question. As you earlier said I have to select the shoots to keep later when I prune, what if those shoots are all growing from below the head (the area where I pruned the main trunk recently)? Because in most of the pictures I have seen, the shoots or arms are originating from the head and not from below it.

Also can someone identify the disease/condition of this plant. Some of the leaves have discoloured and some turned brown.

Also a few plants have dried up and died. Most of them were small. Should this be a major concern?

Thank you!

@grapeman

 

[daniyalsm]

Ok so I know it is early to think about it since my next pruning will be in the dormant season, however I am a bit confused on how I will do it.

I have headed almost all the vines at the top wire level, however I am not sure how I will take two shoots from the head of the vine and put them on the wires. I do not see two separate shoots emerging from the top of the vine (the place where I headed the vine). How will I go about this?


There is one strong shoot emerging from the right side just below the headed vine. I can make this go to one side of the geneva double curtain, however which shoot will I use to go to the other side?

No shoots near the top of this headed vine.

Also I got my soil pH checked and it is between 8.0 and 8.5. Whats the best way to amend it? Add sulphur or gypsum or add manure? Also the discolouration in post 37 be due to chlorosis, which is caused by high pH soils? If so, how come it is only affecting 1 or 2 plants.

@grapeman Thanks

 

[grapeman]

Did you get a proper analysis done and not just check the pH? The full test will tell you what is missing and how to correct the pH to the crop grown. Not sure if they do those tests there or not but it would be a good idea to check. The deficient leaves could either be iron or magnesium. The high pH can tie up certain nutrients.

\When you train the shoots up, pick the ones that make most sense to get the structure you want. Remember these vines take several years to form and once you get them there it is relatively easy to maintain their structure.

 

[daniyalsm]

@grapeman I have sent the soil for a proper analysis. Should hopefully get the results in a week. Also sorry to bother you again but can you please clarify one thing.

How do I go from something that looks like:

to this:

There is a large gap between the topmost shoot and the second shoot on the trunk. Do I take number 1 and train it horizontally to one side of the wire and take number 2 and train it horizontally to the other side of the wire? How does it work. I have the same question for both the cane pruned and the spur pruned varieties. What do I do

Sorry for asking. I just want to get everything right as I have spent a lot of time and effort in this, but do not have the correct technical knowledge.