Secondary fermentation Qs!

[Nigel Ford]

Hi everyone!
So this is my first time making wine... I"m following a recipe from an old-school book that my partner's grandparents gave me. I'm making a blackberry wine and I've already racked it into the secondary fermenter...

The recipe says that I have to rack it out of the first carboy into a separate one after 10 days, and then do that again after a while. The problem is I only have the one carboy and don't really have anything else suitable to rack it into.

Recipes I've looked at online seem to think it's fine if I just leave it in the first carboy for the duration of the primary fermentation... but I just want to double check! It's been in there about 12 days now, and fermentation seems to be slowing (there was a good 1.5 inches of CO2 bubbles towards the top of the wine for the first week or so, now there's less than a cm).

Am I good to keep it as it is?

 

[Chuck E]

Hi everyone!
The recipe says that I have to rack it out of the first carboy into a separate one after 10 days, and then do that again after a while. The problem is I only have the one carboy and don't really have anything else suitable to rack it into.

Am I good to keep it as it is?

You can keep it the way you have for a while. But around here used carboys are pretty cheap ($25). You are going to want to rack it a few times before you bottle it. Might as well get prepared. And this is how my addiction began...

 

[Nigel Ford]

Alright, I'll keep an eye out for used ones. What's the purpose of re-racking it?

 

[Intheswamp]

Watch the debris that forms in the bottom of the secondary vessel. Once it gets thick you need to rack the wine off the "lees". Lees are the debris on the bottom of the carboy is called. Racking is to remove the fine lees and helps to make the wine clear up. Probably every 30 days would be good. Measure SG and once the wine's SG has been steady and unchanging for three days you can bottle or airlock it for bulk, long-term aging. Don't forget to use K-meta for every other racking.

You could rack it back to the primary bucket/vessel, clean the carboy, and then rack back to the carboy. Be sure to top the wine off after racking as the level will be a little lower than it was once the sludge and lees are gone. Try not to splash the wine...

What size is your carboy?

 

[GreenEnvy22]

As others said, you want to get the wine of the lees. Over time, sitting on a bunch of lees can develop bad flavours. If no other carboy available, sanitize a bucket well, rack into it, clean carboy, sanitize it, rack back.
Used carboys here are usually $5-10 each for a 5-gallon. I'm picking up 4 more tomorrow as my 15 are all full.

 

[Nigel Ford]

Ahh, that makes sense. My next question would be... how would I rack the wine without disturbing the lees and sucking them up? The recipe only calls for a hand-syphon, but the only way I can see that working is by trying to syphon without allowing the actual syphon to touch the bottom of the carboy. This would thereby avoid sucking up the lees but would also leave a significant amount of wine in the carboy, no?

I'm not sure what size the carboy is, I think it's a 5 gallon / 20 litre. I do actually have some k-meta that I acquired (potassium bisulphate, right? this stuff's not brand name but I think it's the same compound) but again, the recipe doesn't specifically call for it so I'm unsure of how to use it or what it's even for.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

[jgmann67]

Bubbles don’t necessarily tell you when your wine ferment is done.

Do you have a hydrometer? Checking your specific gravity before and after fermentation is always a good move. You’ll know what your potential alcohol is going to be and you’ll know when your fermentation is complete.

If you fermented your wine in the carboy, and don’t have a fermentation bucket, you’ll need another. But if you’re going to make more wine in the future, I’d recommend getting a fermenter (7.5 gal + bucket) too.

 

[Chuck E]

Ahh, that makes sense. My next question would be... how would I rack the wine without disturbing the lees and sucking them up? The recipe only calls for a hand-syphon, but the only way I can see that working is by trying to syphon without allowing the actual syphon to touch the bottom of the carboy. This would thereby avoid sucking up the lees but would also leave a significant amount of wine in the carboy, no?

I'm not sure what size the carboy is, I think it's a 5 gallon / 20 litre. I do actually have some k-meta that I acquired (potassium bisulphate, right? this stuff's not brand name but I think it's the same compound) but again, the recipe doesn't specifically call for it so I'm unsure of how to use it or what it's even for.

Thanks again for all your help!

Yes, you want to siphon as close to the bottom without sucking up the lees. And yes, you will leave a bit of wine behind. Many of us "top off" with extra wine we have made or something close to what we are making. The potassium meta bi-sulfite is a kind of anti-microbial. You can use it to sanitize and it protects your wine. If you don't have a scale, a good rule of thumb is 1/4 teaspoon in 5 gallons. In long term aging, I use K meta about every 3 months when I rack.

 

[Intheswamp]

Ahh, that makes sense. My next question would be... how would I rack the wine without disturbing the lees and sucking them up? The recipe only calls for a hand-syphon, but the only way I can see that working is by trying to syphon without allowing the actual syphon to touch the bottom of the carboy. This would thereby avoid sucking up the lees but would also leave a significant amount of wine in the carboy, no?

The first racking from the primary to the secondary vessel will end up with some lees being transferred. Be as careful as you can, though. Don't move the siphon tube quickly while in the wine as it can stir the lees up into suspension. Move slowly and if you let go of the tubing to do something else be sure that it is secured so that it won't fall into the lees or otherwise cause a disturbance in the wine by moving fast to a resting position. If you do suck up some lees, don't panic...there will be more rackings and with each of them more and more lees will be left behind and the wine will get clearer and clearer.

For that last bit of wine that you hate to lose...

Take that last bit of wine that you can't get to because of fear of sucking up the lees and rack/pour it the best you can into a small container. Use an appropriate sized PET soft-drink bottle or a pint, quart, whatever sized canning jar. Don't worry about getting lees sucked up but I personally wouldn't go for the thick mud at the bottom of the container....no matter what, it will be a cloudy mess. Put it in the refrigerator for a week or so and let it "cold crash" and settle out. It should end up having clear wine above the lees that settle out. Pour that good wine off into another PET bottle, leaving the lees behind. I haven't made much wine but the mead that I made I like the PET drink bottles for the "extra" because I could squeeze them and cause the wine to be forced up into the neck...screw the cap on to hold the vacuum created and a less-than-full bottle becomes full and reduces head-space for the small amount of wine. If it is still fermenting slowly it can force the plastic bottle to expand back out...but it will have a blanket of CO2 over the wine if it does. If the bottle gets really tight you can slowly turn the cap to let a little pressure off then tighten back up. Use the wine to top off with after later rackings. Just newbie ramblings that is probably full of errors, but...food for thought?

 

[cmason1957]

I have a slightly different method for that first racking. Get as much as you can, don't worry about getting some of the lees. I shove my racking cane down to the bottom and don't move it. you might get some, but they fell out, they will fall out again and not enough to cause off odors to develop, so why worry about it. I do the same on almost every racking and I do get some, but less and less, since there is less and less to get. By the year time frame, when it is nearly time to think about filtering, there is nothing on the bottom.

 

[Intheswamp]

I see what you're doing, cmason1957. You stick the cane against the bottom and that clears out the surrounding area of lees. Sure you get those lees but once they're gone from around the tip of the cane your in fairly clear wine. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that!

 

[cmason1957]

I see what you're doing, cmason1957. You stick the cane against the bottom and that clears out the surrounding area of lees. Sure you get those lees but once they're gone from around the tip of the cane your in fairly clear wine. Interesting. Thanks for sharing that!

Bing, bing, bing!!!! That's exactly what happens and you get a little bit, but not very much at all. Nothing to worry about.

 

[Intheswamp]

Will the ghost of Ed McMahon be delivering a check to my front door soon?

 

[cmason1957]

Will the ghost of Ed McMahon be delivering a check to my front door soon?

Nope, it will be the new spokesperson, Steve Harvey. You keep your eyes peeled for that, okay???

 

[Intheswamp]

He don't look like a ghost... But, I'll be on the lookout for him!!!

 

[Nigel Ford]

Sweet, thanks all for the great advice!!

 

[Nigel Ford]

Hmm, one more question. I opened my box of potassium metabisulphate and see that there's also a bag of some 'acid solution' in there, in addition to a bag of white powder which I presume is the potassium itself. Are these supposed to be used together? There's no actual mention of the acid solution on the box...

 

[Nigel Ford]

More questions! Sorry I'm such a noob lol. Again so much thanks for everyone's assistance. I'm going to make a separate solution of potassium metabisulphate & water for sanitizing my gear... is it possible to store this solution for later use? Does it need to be refrigerated?

 

[Intheswamp]

Not sure what to say about the bottle of liquid...what does the label say?

Yes, you can store the K-meta. Store in a sealed jug. Long as it has a strong smell it is good to use. Once the smell gets weak dump it and mix up some more. Room team appears to be fine for storage.

 

[Nigel Ford]

Er, sorry, it says Acid Blend, not acid solution. I think it's supposed to be a solution for modifying the acidity of something.

Thanks for the heads up! I'm going to get to work right away.