Should I try to MLF or just at the Potassium or Calcium Carbonate?

[Angelo]

Hi, still new to this so I was hoping I could get some advice. I am at the tail end of my primary on Sangoivese, Barbera and Cab Sauv. I attempted to balance the wine prior to pitching. Had the sugar at 22 Brix (after a little sugar). I think I made an error in reading the TA. So I accidentally added acid blend (50 Citric, 40 Malic, 10 Tartaric). PH this morning was 3.6 on a digital reader. SPG has a little more to go, was at 1.08. Tasted this morning and it did seem a little tart but promising otherwise. Wondering if I should try a MLF or wait until after pressing and adding the K2CO3 or CaCO3. Any help is greatly appreciated.

grapes are from California, Sangiovese were definitely on the vine longer. Had plenty raisin like fruit in the boxes. Total pounds of grapes was 288, mostly Sangio'...

 

[wood1954]

Some of the tartness is from the co2 and I think some from the alcohol, potassium bicarbonate reduces the tartaric acid nor malic. So mlf would help soften the wine. Take a small amount out and shake it up real good and let sit for a few hours and taste it again.

 

[Rice_Guy]

You will find that patience is a useful skill in many things related to wine.

With a pH of 3.6 in an active fermentation, I would say it is as good as it can get. I would expect that when you are done and degassed you will find that the pH has increased by 0.2 units at which time you may taste the wine and debate adding more acid, ,,,,, or enjoying it as is.
You didn’t mention how many grams of acid per gallon. ,,, I have been surprised how much it takes to push the pH lower, with fruit wines I typically aim for pH 3.2 to 3.3 and add five and five and five and five and maybe three and maybe then two.

welcome to wine making talk

 

[sour_grapes]

Welcome to WMT!

I assume your SG was 1.008, as opposed to the 1.080 that you mentioned?

 

[CDrew]

Couple of thoughts:

If it needs additional acid, it's naturally derived tartaric acid only. Likely no harm done with the blend, but toss it out and buy Tartaric acid for future additions.

Your pH looks fine. Don't add anything. Especially don't add potassium or calcium carbonate. Why do you think you need that? (just trying to understand the logic, not being critical)

You can add MLF bacteria any time, and since this is a red wine, I would do it now.

 

[Angelo]

Thank you everyone, for your replies. Very helpful and encouraging.
CDrew, the biggest reason I was considering adding potassium or Cal Carb is due to my reading of the TA, actually it is more like the misreading of the TA just prior to fermentation and again slightly after the start of primary. I probably miscalculated and thought my reading was WAY to high (having to add 15 mls of solution to reach the 'endpoint'). Concurrently, I also used the paper strips to measure the PH, which I also misread as way over 4.4. I never had an issue with the strips before but maybe the color of the wine (very deep/concentrated purple) messed with the color change (or my reading of the color) on the strip. In essence, I thought I had a very high PH and very high TA (which confused me...more on that in a minute). That is why added the acid blend, I have to check my notes but it should have been enough to bring the PH down by .2 (from 4.4 to 4.2), I was going to start low and see what happened as opposed to adding too much. When I got the digital reader and took the first measurement it was 3.4, second read was 3.6. I am happy with that and will take everyone's advice.
Now, back to my erroneous readings of high PH and high TA. I started doing some research to see if it was possible and what would cause that. I found an article from Australia stating grapes that were left on the vine too long/raisins contained more potassium which had a contradictory effect on the PH, causing it to rise. Not sure of the chemistry behind it or why excess potassium in the fruit would cause that but it made me think maybe I had that situation because I had a lot of dried grapes in my Sangiovese...I overthought this, for sure.

Sour Grapes, yes, my SPG was .008. Thank you for pointing it out.
Wood 1954, I will take a new juice sample and try your method, thanks for the tip.

Since I am thinking of an MLF, if I press and put into carboys with airlocks, use low SO2 and add mlf bacteria, will I have to worry about an aggressive mlf that will potentially block through the airlocks or make a mess? I never used a mlf.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[cmason1957]

You never have to worry about MLF being aggressive, it isn't a fermentation in the sense of alcohol fermentation. It is a conversion of one type of acid to another and a LITTLE bit of CO2 being given off. I have never seen my airlock move during an MLF. Also, you say use a low SO2, you really shoudn't add any more SO2 until MLF is complete.

 

[Angelo]

Sour Grapes, thanks! That’s just what I wanted to hear.
Last night PH was 3.7 with SPG of 1.000. Still some light fermentation audible. I hope to press and add MLF bacteria to morrow…
I tried, Wood1954 suggestion of a vigorous shake and taste after a few hours. Still pretty tart. Hoping it will drop out during Malo. Not sure if it is too much citric acid in the must or malic…

 

[Kitchen]

Any SO2 added will inhibit MLF, so you need to take that into consideration. However, your PH is at the upper limit and you do not have enough acid to really protect the wine long term. Not saying that it is going spoil overnight, or even in a fortnight, but a PH of 3.7 provides little protection. Whether or not to add more acid really depends on how long you will be aging it, in what vessel and how patient you are. I would not suggest adding more acid unless you are barrel aging the wine for a year or more, and even so, I would suggest using straight tartaric acid in the future. With the best artificial malic acid, only 50% is convertible, at best, and malic acid is very tart.

If I were you, I would add MLF immediately and after a month start adding a lite amount of SO2 for protection, but trying to keep it below the upper limit for the strain of bacteria you are using. You should be able to find what that upper limit is in the manufacturer's product data. I would also greatly limit the head space in the vessel you are using. In a few months time, I would bring the SO2 up to at least 50 PPM, which is a good minimum for protection at a of PH 3.7. This is higher then what any MLF bacteria I have seen can handle though.

 

[Angelo]

Any SO2 added will inhibit MLF, so you need to take that into consideration. However, your PH is at the upper limit and you do not have enough acid to really protect the wine long term. Not saying that it is going spoil overnight, or even in a fortnight, but a PH of 3.7 provides little protection. Whether or not to add more acid really depends on how long you will be aging it, in what vessel and how patient you are. I would not suggest adding more acid unless you are barrel aging the wine for a year or more, and even so, I would suggest using straight tartaric acid in the future. With the best artificial malic acid, only 50% is convertible, at best, and malic acid is very tart.

If I were you, I would add MLF immediately and after a month start adding a lite amount of SO2 for protection, but trying to keep it below the upper limit for the strain of bacteria you are using. You should be able to find what that upper limit is in the manufacturer's product data. I would also greatly limit the head space in the vessel you are using. In a few months time, I would bring the SO2 up to at least 50 PPM, which is a good minimum for protection at a of PH 3.7. This is higher then what any MLF bacteria I have seen can handle though.

Kitchen, thank you very much for all the info. I read this a couple weeks after I pressed and added the MLF starter. I added tartaric to lower the ph to 3.6 prior to the pitch. I also let the wine get to about 70 degrees. Filled the car boys and gallon jugs pretty high and air locked them. I have them in the kitchen maintaining about 70. I still see tiny bubbles and it is pretty steady/active so I assume the MLF is going. I have agitated the car boys and gallons jugs once a week with a slight rock back and forth. My plan is to observe for two more weeks, test the PH and add a little SO2 if it is 3.7 or higher as you suggest. Then two or theee months out I will add some more SO2 like you recommended.
Thanks again,
A

 

[stickman]

I also don't recommend adding any SO2 until it's been decided you want the MLF to stop. If not using a chromatogram to check the ML progress, then check the wine aromatics for diacetal (butter aroma) which can be higher than normal when citric acid has been added and is being consumed by the bacteria. If diacetal is detected, allow several days for it to be consumed by the lees before adding SO2. Adding SO2 when diacetal is present will "lock in" the aroma, maybe positive for a Chardonnay but not so much for a red wine.