Soil test analysis questions.

[Masbustelo]

I know many of you are still in the hurry hurry of harvest and crush, etc. Some of us have been done for a month now. I'm done and looking ahead to next year. I have both Verona and Petite pearl. The Petite Pearl harvested at 3.77Ph and T.A. .8. The leaves are showing symptoms of I believe are Magnesium deficiency. But as you know some of the micro nutrient deficiency in leaves are very similar. I have a home vineyard and did a soil test recently. For lawn purposes it was recommended that I would add sulfate of potash and Boron. In the soil test my magnesium levels seem to be high. Does any one have expertise with soil tests and any suggestions for me. A month ago I tested the Ph with my Ph meter and showed 5.9. I applied lime prior to the samples and also epsom salt to the vines. The Ph now tested 6.7.https://postimg.cc/PvTYBr3G

 

[Johnd]

I know many of you are still in the hurry hurry of harvest and crush, etc. Some of us have been done for a month now. I'm done and looking ahead to next year. I have both Verona and Petite pearl. The Petite Pearl harvested at 3.77Ph and T.A. .8. The leaves are showing symptoms of I believe are Magnesium deficiency. But as you know some of the micro nutrient deficiency in leaves are very similar. I have a home vineyard and did a soil test recently. For lawn purposes it was recommended that I would add sulfate of potash and Boron. In the soil test my magnesium levels seem to be high. Does any one have expertise with soil tests and any suggestions for me. A month ago I tested the Ph with my Ph meter and showed 5.9. I applied lime prior to the samples and also epsom salt to the vines. The Ph now tested 6.7.https://postimg.cc/PvTYBr3G

Not sure how you did your soil testing, but down here in the south, we have Farmer’s Co-ops that do soil testing, and they’re customized by the crop. For instance, if you had samples from a field and planned to grow soybeans, the test would indicate the current condition of all the elements in the soil, note the deficiencies based upon the requirements for soybeans, and recommend the amount of a particular element to be applied. Tests run about 5 bucks a pop, not too bad.

If I’m reading your post right, your test was compared to the desired values for a lawn. The requirements for a beautiful lawn versus optimum grape growing could be quite different. Is there any way you can have your soil tested and those results compared to what grapevines need? It might change what you do if you know the “desired value” for your grapes.

 

[Masbustelo]

John Those are good suggestions. I often see soil tests recommended, but I don't think I've seen labs for grape production recommended.

 

[Johnd]

John Those are good suggestions. I often see soil tests recommended, but I don't think I've seen labs for grape production recommended.

You wouldn’t necessarily have to run the test with grapes in mind specifically, but you could compare your soils results to those of “optimum grape growth conditions”, if that’s something you can lay your hands on.

I’d be surprised if it doesn’t exist in California, labs that regularly run soils tests and recommend soil amendments to the wineries. Maybe just a matter of finding one and mailing off a few samples.

 

[CK55]

I

You wouldn’t necessarily have to run the test with grapes in mind specifically, but you could compare your soils results to those of “optimum grape growth conditions”, if that’s something you can lay your hands on.

I’d be surprised if it doesn’t exist in California, labs that regularly run soils tests and recommend soil amendments to the wineries. Maybe just a matter of finding one and mailing off a few samples.

I would like to find one. I do know of one on the east coast if I recall.

 

[CTDrew]

Check your local land grant university as there may be something nearby. Cornell has a soil testing program here: http://cnal.cals.cornell.edu/ and you can send them your soil sample and ask for recommendations based on the type of grape you are growing.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Double A vineyards offers both soil and petioles testing. Soil testing is fine, but at some point you may want to test the petioles in case you have some sort of uptake issue. Double A's viticulturist will make recommendations based on the results. It's $60, but worth it to know where you stand.

https://doubleavineyards.com/vineyard-soil-testing

 

[Masbustelo]

I think I will try the petiole testing next year.

 

[treesaver]

I checked with my county extension agent, and they offered two soil tests a year.....free! You want anymore than two a year it comes out of your pocket, but the price wasn't that bad. They run the analysis with grapes in mind, and offered corrective action. Check with your county extension agent.

 

[Masbustelo]

I will treesaver, thanks.

 

[BigH]

The leaves are showing symptoms of I believe are Magnesium deficiency....I have a home vineyard and did a soil test recently. For lawn purposes it was recommended that I would add sulfate of potash and Boron. In the soil test my magnesium levels seem to be high.

I busted out my soil test from 2013, the fall before I planted my small vineyard. My results were analyzed by the viticulture department at Iowa State. They classified each sample and gave me a fertilization recommendation. My lab results are in ppm instead of lbs/acre. The conversion is ppm = 1/2 the lb/ac value

My soil
K :180 ppm == "Very High"
Mg : 397 ppm = "Extremely High"

Your soil
K = 267 lb/ac = 134 ppm == "High"
Mg = 362 lb/ac = 181 ppm == "Very High"

My classifications for your soil are based on individual samples from my acreage. One sample measured 126 ppm of K as was labeled "High" in the report, and another area measured 163 ppm Mg as was labeled "Very High".

I agree with the recommendation of doing a petiole analysis next year. I would not be in a hurry to add K or Mg based on the soil sample. Note that periods of prolonged rain can cause nutrients to leech away. Calcium levels can also interfere with the uptake of K and Mg.

H

 

[Dennis Griffith]

I've included the tests I had run this year to give you an idea. And yea, I have work to do. I have worked hard over the years to amend my poor soil. My acreage has been heavily farmed for a long time, so it is expected that there will be problems. The interesting thing about soil is that once cultivation takes place, the soil chemistry is forever changed.

 

[Bobp]

Most states have agriculture extension departments. They'll offer the testing service.

 

[Masbustelo]

Dennis Griffith I am going to study what you have posted. Big H Have you noticed leaf discoloration in the fall on your vines? How has high K and Mg affected either vines or fruit? Did your report make suggestions for remediation?

 

[Dennis Griffith]

As for my reports, yes recommendations were made. What you need is for an agronomist knowledgeable in viticulture to review the report and help you determine how to amend to soil.

As for vine health this year relative to the report, my vines did well, and on the vines that I let produce, they did well. But, they could have been better. They were not as full and green as I would have liked. But this has been a wet year and southern Ohio is not as idea a location for grape production as other places, so it seems we are constantly sailing into the wind.

I will be starting to supplement the soil this winter. The vines are slipping into dormancy and I want to wait just a little longer, but want to introduce some mineral supplements prior to my regular fertilizer schedule.

 

[BigH]

Big H Have you noticed leaf discoloration in the fall on your vines? How has high K and Mg affected either vines or fruit? Did your report make suggestions for remediation?

The report did not recommend trying to lower anything. They did recommend a phosphorus addition at planting and to use zinc based foliar sprays. Those two nutrients were on the low side.

I had some early yellowing last year in two varieties, but nothing major. I am pretty new to winemaking in general, but I have not noticed any problems with the fruit. Usually a potassium deficiency is a bigger concern than excess.

H

 

[Masbustelo]

For turf it was suggested that I apply Sulphate of potash at two pounds per 1000 sq ft every month. Il probably hit the grapes too

 

[CK55]

I've included the tests I had run this year to give you an idea. And yea, I have work to do. I have worked hard over the years to amend my poor soil. My acreage has been heavily farmed for a long time, so it is expected that there will be problems. The interesting thing about soil is that once cultivation takes place, the soil chemistry is forever changed.

Why is the potassium so freaking high

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Why is the potassium so freaking high

Good question CK. I didn't add anything other than lime and 12-12-12 fertilizer this year. I knew the calcium needed boosted, but didn't realize the sulfur was so low. I wonder if glyphosate could cause this? I use it sparingly for weed control. I'm going to meet up with an agronomist who is knowledgeable in viticulture soon. I'll share what I learn.

PS. I also did soil tests on an area that I'm expanding into which has been fallow for years. K was normal.

 

[CK55]

Good question CK. I didn't add anything other than lime and 12-12-12 fertilizer this year. I knew the calcium needed boosted, but didn't realize the sulfur was so low. I wonder if glyphosate could cause this? I use it sparingly for weed control. I'm going to meet up with an agronomist who is knowledgeable in viticulture soon. I'll share what I learn.

PS. I also did soil tests on an area that I'm expanding into which has been fallow for years. K was normal.

Please do share what you discover I am going to test my plants and soil. I am interested to see what comes back.