Ta Test results and adjustments

[celladwella]

I just ran a new test calibrated my ph meter took the ph it’s now up to 4.05 it’s been going through Mlf for 2 weeks now. So it’s come up which I expected. Did the TA test for the first time on the wine since my previous attempt failed since I used the frozen must which I thawed. The TA came in at 4.5. With my wine volume 50 gallons my calculations bringing it to 7.3 would require 530 grams of Tartaric has anyone ever attempted this I’m not comfortable adding that much tartaric from what I read they say add half and retest. Thoughts on this?

 

[Johnd]

You can manage high pH with good sulfite practices, so don’t make pH your goal, make taste your goal. Do bench trials, adding small amounts of tartaric to known volumes of wine, when you find the sweet spot, you can expand the addition to your batch size. Then you can craft your sulfite protocol to match your pH.

The amount of acid you are contemplating will raise your TA to 7.26, that’s too high, and you’ll probably make the wine too acidic, tart, or sour. I think @ibglowin did this once.........and only once, maybe he’ll chime in here.

My recommendation is bench trials to taste, sulfite to match resulting pH.

 

[ibglowin]

Yep I did that once. Adjusted to the perfect pH without tasting it. Then tasted it and it was so tart I couldn't drink it. Luckily I only did this one gallon and was able to blend it out stuff I didn't add any to. Take a gallon out. Add 1/2 of what you think you need. Check the pH and TA and add 1/2 again. Keep checking and tasting. You may find that you have the perfect pH but the taste is all out of whack as well.

 

[Ajmassa]

I can attest. Go small increments and taste. Currently have about 20 gallons of a Tuscan blend from fall 2017 with seemingly good numbers after adjusting post MLF 3.9-3.6.
It’s not horrible. But not ideal either. Maybe because I’m aware Of it while tasting. I just added too much. And now I’ve just been procrastinating on addressing it.
Doing the whole deacidification deal is not something I look forward to. But hey - ya live ya learn.

 

[celladwella]

Thanks for all the input that’s how we all learn from mistakes I was going to add that much TA but will go slow and taste see where i get and will let you all know

 

[celladwella]

So I added only 82grams of tartaric acid to the wine I have it in different size containers so I proportionately added it. One thing I noticed which I find interesting is when I took a small sample and added the tartaric to it to dissolve it the wine changed color it went from a deeper red/ purple to a lighter more pinker color in the sample I’m wondering if this is normal and I’m curious if this will affect the color of the larger batch when it’s integrated.

 

[Johnd]

So I added only 82grams of tartaric acid to the wine I have it in different size containers so I proportionately added it. One thing I noticed which I find interesting is when I took a small sample and added the tartaric to it to dissolve it the wine changed color it went from a deeper red/ purple to a lighter more pinker color in the sample I’m wondering if this is normal and I’m curious if this will affect the color of the larger batch when it’s integrated.

Yes, it's typical when adding a large amount of tartaric to a smaller amount of wine, it will blend right in with the bigger batch, no issues of concern. Incidentally, if you ever have to reduce acidity with K carbonate, it's the exact opposite. Mixing a dose into a small amount of wine makes it turn nearly black, again, once added back to the bigger batch, no issues........

Did you follow your taste buds??? Where did you end up with your TA and pH?

 

[celladwella]

Yes, it's typical when adding a large amount of tartaric to a smaller amount of wine, it will blend right in with the bigger batch, no issues of concern. Incidentally, if you ever have to reduce acidity with K carbonate, it's the exact opposite. Mixing a dose into a small amount of wine makes it turn nearly black, again, once added back to the bigger batch, no issues........

Did you follow your taste buds??? Where did you end up with your TA and pH?

I will post once I do another test.

 

[celladwella]

Taste test was good ph is now 3.92 I did my first ever Chromotography test will post later tommorrow and hope
To test ta also will be posting those numbers as well.

 

[celladwella]

Chromatography test completed on 3 of the 6 vessels. I have never did this Mlf or chromatography so first time from what I read I still have some time to go but it’s working. This is a little over 2 weeks.

Also, TA test shows it’s at 5.5 so I added another 30 grams last night my goal is to come in about 6.0 and more importantly bring the ph down some more hopefully 3.5-3.6 range.

 

[stickman]

As others above have already pointed out, no need to drive the pH down just to meet a textbook number, 3.5 would likely be a mistake. If you drive it down to 3.5, it will end up 3.4 or lower as tartrates drop out during bulk aging. A California heavy red may start at 3.5 pH as must, but the wine will usually end up at 3.7 or possibly higher depending on vineyard conditions as well as length of fermentation skin contact. Depending on tannin content, a TA of 5.5 may be reasonable, but of course go by taste, high TA with high tannin will generally be more aggressive on the palate.

 

[Ajmassa]

Also I believe it’s pretty standard to wait until after MLF is done and acid is at final levels before making minor adjustments.
But Going from 4.05 to 3.5 after fermentation is exactly what was suggested not to do! Wine could become tart in spite of good numbers.
Stop effing with it! Lol

 

[celladwella]

Okay I will take your advice ajmassa and stickman I think it will be just fine at these levels. Thanks for the good advice.

 

[Ajmassa]

Definitely ! Just wait till after MLF to test and re-evaluate. I Just didn’t want you to make the same mistake I made.

 

[celladwella]

Where’s the thumbs up button