The First Taste...

[Bmd2k1]

I'm curious when folks are talking the First taste of their wine, why then and what it can tell you about the wine that can/could direct future activities? (Does anyone taste immediately after fermentation - at start of bulk aging?)

For me up to this point -- for whites which I typically bulk age 3-4months -- it's at about the 2-2.5month point -- gauge taste and clarity....for my reds, most of which get 6months bulks aging...it's typically at the 4-5month mark.

Cheers!

 

[cmason1957]

I generally take a sip of the must, after it is fully mixed up. Gives me an idea of the starting acidity and perceived sweetness, which can be very different from what you might expect just based on sg. Particularly for things I haven't made before, it gives me a first clue of will I be backsweetening this when it is complete or not and would I expect it to take lots or a little. It also helps me decide if I think I need to have sacrificial tannins added during fermentation. Next sip I take is generally as alcoholic fermentation is completing, helps me decide if I picked up something I need to deal with sooner rather than later, there is also an aroma check at this point. I can also decide if I need more oak than normal, less oak, heavier toast, lighter. Then I always take a small sip anytime I add SO2, rack, just because it's Friday and I haven't tasted this wine in a while.

 

[BernardSmith]

Strongly agree with cmason1957. Seems like a lot of novice wine makers act as if tasting the wine at any stage other than months after bottling is anathema. But if we actually taste our wines every time we touch them, we really begin to understand better the process the fruits go through and how wines taste at different stages.

 

[mainshipfred]

I don't have the palate to know how a recently fermented wine should taste like or how aging would affect it. I make my preferment adjustment based on numbers. The first time I may taste would be after racking off the gross lees just because I'll have a little left over and maybe after a racking additional rackings which I don't do very often. All my adjustments are made prior to blending which is around 8 months for whites and sometimes over a year for reds.

 

[winemaker81]

I taste wine every time I rack or otherwise touch it, post-fermentation.

Craig's response made me think more about what I'm perceiving when I taste. I mentally block the CO2 aroma/taste, and get an idea of the overall aroma, fruitiness, how strong the wine tastes (depending on the source fruit), how tannic it is, how acidic. At pressing/first racking I can get a fairly good idea how good the wine will turn out. This is far from exact, more of a hint in the direction the wine will progress. [I'm going to start tasting the must.]

When tasting I usually take 2 sips -- first one I swirl in my mouth and swallow to cover other flavors. The second one I swirl around and hold, letting it contact the inside of my mouth in all places. Then slowly swallow.

It helps me pick out different things -- in a recent post I commented on the differences in tannin between the barrel aging and unoaked topup wine for my 2022 Tempranillo. In one the tannin is most noticeable on the gums, and the other along the sides of the tongue, probably a difference between grape and oak tannin.

A lot of this requires experience -- taste every wine every time you rack or otherwise touch it.

Note that this affects your volume. Each month I draw a 4 oz sample from each barrel, and over the course of a year this adds up to 1.5 liters of wine, e.g., 2 bottles. If you don't have overage, it doesn't work as well, although if you have a compatible wine to top with, that's ok.

As Bernard pointed out, tasting along the way teaches us the progression. That's the reason I suggest opening a bottle every month or two, to continue that education.

This is nothing that can be taught remotely, or from a textbook. We can and should talk about it, but tasting the wine is a requirement for learning.

Yeah, like this is a tough thing to do, right?

 

[BarrelMonkey]

I like to taste as often as I can justify, from initial must to bottling. It's educational, it's fun and and it means that if I pick up a flaw I can address it before it gets out of hand. Typically I will pull a 50mL sample for SO2 testing and taste whatever remains after I run the test (20 or 25mL sample size). I keep tasting notes in the same spreadsheet as the fermentation record, SO2 testing and additions, etc.

That being said... I find it hard to judge how reds are going to turn out until at least 6-7 months after the end of primary fermentation. Even then, lots can happen between the 6-month mark and bottling. Whites seem a bit easier to gauge early on, though still change over the months.

 

[Raptor99]

I taste the ingredients, and at every step along the way. As @winemaker81 said, through experience we learn how to identify the characteristics at each stage. With enough experience, it is possible to taste an immature wine and have an idea how it is likely to turn out after aging. An important part of this is to be able to identify any flaws or deficiencies, and know how to remedy them at the appropriate stage.

Here is an example: Recently I tasted a cider that I racked out of primary. It had a yeasty flavor, which I expect at this stage. I could not detect any H2S. The apple flavor was noticeable. The flavor was tart, but a little flat and one-dimmensional because it was made with grocery store apple juice. But I knew that I would be adding a little more malic acid and oaking in the secondary, and then adding glycerin and back sweetening before bottling. So I concluded that it was doing well, and had a good flavor for a young, unfinished cider.

This is similar to making soup. Taste it along the way, and make adjustments as needed. Except that unlike soup, it takes a really long time to be finished!

 

[Hazelemere]

I taste wine every time I rack or otherwise touch it, post-fermentation.

Craig's response made me think more about what I'm perceiving when I taste. I mentally block the CO2 aroma/taste, and get an idea of the overall aroma, fruitiness, how strong the wine tastes (depending on the source fruit), how tannic it is, how acidic. At pressing/first racking I can get a fairly good idea how good the wine will turn out. This is far from exact, more of a hint in the direction the wine will progress. [I'm going to start tasting the must.]

When tasting I usually take 2 sips -- first one I swirl in my mouth and swallow to cover other flavors. The second one I swirl around and hold, letting it contact the inside of my mouth in all places. Then slowly swallow.

It helps me pick out different things -- in a recent post I commented on the differences in tannin between the barrel aging and unoaked topup wine for my 2022 Tempranillo. In one the tannin is most noticeable on the gums, and the other along the sides of the tongue, probably a difference between grape and oak tannin.

A lot of this requires experience -- taste every wine every time you rack or otherwise touch it.

Note that this affects your volume. Each month I draw a 4 oz sample from each barrel, and over the course of a year this adds up to 1.5 liters of wine, e.g., 2 bottles. If you don't have overage, it doesn't work as well, although if you have a compatible wine to top with, that's ok.

As Bernard pointed out, tasting along the way teaches us the progression. That's the reason I suggest opening a bottle every month or two, to continue that education.

This is nothing that can be taught remotely, or from a textbook. We can and should talk about it, but tasting the wine is a requirement for learning.

Yeah, like this is a tough thing to do, right?

the comment on tannin is spot on. Very useful posting.

 

[winemaker81]

Here is an example: Recently I tasted a cider that I racked out of primary. It had a yeasty flavor, which I expect at this stage. I could not detect any H2S. The apple flavor was noticeable. The flavor was tart, but a little flat and one-dimmensional because it was made with grocery store apple juice. But I knew that I would be adding a little more malic acid and oaking in the secondary, and then adding glycerin and back sweetening before bottling. So I concluded that it was doing well, and had a good flavor for a young, unfinished cider.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. This type of explanation should be really useful to folks learning how to taste their wine as it matures.

 

[Rice_Guy]

I taste every time I open the carboy.
*Tasting will indicate if a flaw has developed ,,, and needs to be dealt with
*Tasting is the old fashioned way to check pH or gravity or TA or tannin level or malic acid. It works
*Tasting builds familiarity on what is normal, ,,, I like to run a variety of country wines, ,,, tasting presents suggestions on new combinations to try to accomplish balance. I also test combinations in a pie (model system) since a carboy has me wait a year. Work also has models to speed up a product.
* I taste because I want to become better/ gain understanding/ I have seen over and over insight today presents solutions on a tough problem I have been working on
* I taste because it is company culture, I am paid to sample candy bars or puffed rice or bran cookies or bullion cubes the next lab is working on
* I taste because repetition makes it easier to name a defect, as knowing the problem and answer by just smelling the factory, or taking 200 lbs of lab equipment to Atlanta for numbers >>> when it is so much faster just to feel how a cookie chews fresh off the oven
**** AND I come out of the food industry which kinda implies that my customer will taste it/ make repeat purchases based on taste

 

[winemaker81]

An important point we've left out is: "because it's fun".

I've had friends and family visit, took them into the cellar, and pulled a barrel sample. You'd think I was giving them $1,000.

One of my job functions (teaching people how to use computers and software) keeps reminding me how special new things are to people. Experienced winemakers often lose this sense of wonder, as it becomes "same 'ole, same 'ole".

Beginners post problems and "the regulars" are "ho hum, do XYZ", because we know the situation is easily corrected. But for newbies, winemaking is a mystifying black box, an honestly terrifying one.

The next time we taste our wine, let's remember that an automagical process changes fruit into wine.

 

[BigDaveK]

My most important tasting is the first one - the ingredients. Many fruit disappointingly never made it into a bucket. In primary every stirring gets a tasting even if it's 6 times a day. After transferring to secondary I'll have a bit left over and that's a longer taste, a couple sips, think about the flavor while I'm tidying up, and then finish and think about it even more. Racking to bulk is an even longer taste - a few sips thinking about the smell and flavor, tidy up, more sips and maybe the addition of syrup. Country wine flavors can be complex and mysterious and I don't have the benefit of a club, a store, or an old fart down the road so it's slow going. I found some aroma and flavor wheels which help give a new wine maker like me some focus.

 

[Shurt1073]

I just started this tasting process in March after reading some articles and posts on WMT. I started with a FWK Pinot Noir & Carmel dessert wine but since I have six more kits at different stages. A few years ago, I had NO IDEA it was good to taste along the way but I have learned so much in the last six months. I do not care for the post ferment on most of the wines ... but I'm understanding the process a little more. As a new wine maker I thought it would probably kill me!

 

[SLM]

I taste as frequently as others. It is educational but my palate is a slow learner. Tasting usually goes something like this: "Nope, still tastes like crap". Until one day I get a surprise. Most recently it was a cab that's been 18 months in carboys. The result was: "Hey, I think that's drinkable". I quickly sought confirmation from family members. Comments ranged from "Hey, that's not bad" to "You just might become a winemaker yet".

Around here we have a 3 tiered rating system: Not drinkable, Drinkable, Good. I make mostly the first two. An occasional third. I have a hard time sensing a gradual improvement in flavor. The change seems sudden. All the more reason to keep on tasting!

 

[vinny]

I also taste any time I can. My mead yesterday is a good example. Recipes called for 2.5 lbs of sugar for a dry mead, 3 for semi sweet, 3.5 for sweet.

My OG reading was 1.072 with 2.5 lbs, I expected it to be higher. I added another half lb of honey. up to 1.080, I added the other 1/2 lb and brought it up to about 1.092. Tasting ktis and country wine musts gives me a baseline. I know the level of sweetness across the board of all my ferments. I was tasting as I was adding and taking measurements. It's another variable control. Honey and sugar are not the same, but I could taste that the sweetness was not anywhere outside of the readings I was getting. Stay the course!

Often when I taste when racking out of primary it gives me an insight into what to expect in a few months. Sometimes it is yikes, that is unbalanced, that one is going to need time. Other times, Oooo, that's gonna be good. I don't have enough time under my belt to identify all the different faults, but if something is off, I can bring it the the committee (WMT) and figure out what is going on.

Later in bulk aging It's simply, do I like it? Ready to bottle or not? I made a Pinot Grigio that was flat, maybe flabby? I needed more acid so I asked here and got instruction to increase it. It is now balanced to my preferences. In other instances I have noted strong acidity, but tasting along the way lets you see how that can blend and mellow, giving you more insight to whether you need additives, counter measures, or simply more time.

 

[Bmd2k1]

I just started this tasting process in March after reading some articles and posts on WMT. I started with a FWK Pinot Noir & Carmel dessert wine but since I have six more kits at different stages. A few years ago, I had NO IDEA it was good to taste along the way but I have learned so much in the last six months. I do not care for the post ferment on most of the wines ... but I'm understanding the process a little more. As a new wine maker I thought it would probably

An important point we've left out is: "because it's fun".

I've had friends and family visit, took them into the cellar, and pulled a barrel sample. You'd think I was giving them $1,000.

One of my job functions (teaching people how to use computers and software) keeps reminding me how special new things are to people. Experienced winemakers often lose this sense of wonder, as it becomes "same 'ole, same 'ole".

Beginners post problems and "the regulars" are "ho hum, do XYZ", because we know the situation is easily corrected. But for newbies, winemaking is a mystifying black box, an honestly terrifying one.

The next time we taste our wine, let's remember that an automagical process changes fruit into wine.

I do rely on and enjoy sharing my vinos at various stages with family and friends -- and utilizing their feedback in my vintner process/journey! Sharing with other is probably the BEST part of wine making for me

(Educating my palate on what's what is a whole other animal...lol.)

Cheers!

 

[Noontime]

As others have already said, I taste as often as possible to gauge where the wine is and if there are any issues to address. I also recommend tasting after you bottle. New winemakers tend to drink everything they make way too fast (me included), so that's always very common advice to let it age. But at the same time, tasting a bottle every month or two is SOOO educational. The first 3 months to a year, the wine can go through some really dramatic and sometimes weird transitions. I've had a few wines that went really funky at 6 to 8 months and then turned beautiful after a year in bottle.

 

[winemaker81]

As others have already said, I taste as often as possible to gauge where the wine is and if there are any issues to address. I also recommend tasting after you bottle. New winemakers tend to drink everything they make way too fast (me included), so that's always very common advice to let it age. But at the same time, tasting a bottle every month or two is SOOO educational. The first 3 months to a year, the wine can go through some really dramatic and sometimes weird transitions. I've had a few wines that went really funky at 6 to 8 months and then turned beautiful after a year in bottle.

You illustrate a necessary trade off -- aging vs tasting.

The solution? Make enough wine to do both.

 

[Noontime]

And to add a bit of a digression... experiencing those weird phases and then having a wonderful beverage 1 or sometimes 3 years later really taught me to NEVER dump anything unless it's infected. If you have brett or vinegar or band-aid, or any other clearly identifiable spoilage it might make sense to dump it. But if it just tastes weird or off or even bad, let it age and see if it turns a corner.

 

[Noontime]

You illustrate a necessary trade off -- aging vs tasting.

The solution? Make enough wine to do both.

For sure. Some good advice I got early on was to make a few batches at a time a few times a year to get a good supply.

But even just 30 bottles, if you taste one every month that sill leaves a bunch to age to some kind of maturity. It's just fighting that devil on your shoulder telling you to DRINK IT! DRINK IT ALL! DRINK IT NOW!