The Winehouse

[Kraffty]

The Winehouse:
Now that I’ve been at this wine making for almost 1-1/2 years and have been taking over the kitchen a couple of 2 or 3 times a month to practice my hobby I’m ready to make a dedicated wine area. The idea started with my wife Lori and I looking at sheds at home depot and thinking we could turn one into a “spare room” where someone could sleep over if needed. That evolved into more of a guest room / hobby room / wine storage concept. As that evolved I became convinced I could build it myself, bigger, stronger and better for roughly the same as the store bought kit.

Once I made that leap though it became pretty clear that I also needed a foundation and for it to be fully framed and completely insulated. I decided to build it like a house instead of a shed. I’ve planned for electricity, water, insulated windows and doors. It has a working area larger than my kitchen work area and storage for all my equipment and supplies - a small bar and seating area for enjoying wine and wine shelves with about 500 bottle capacity to start out. I’ll still be able to use it for guests by having a loft with a double bed (probably use for more storage than anything). Now for the fun part, I’m trying to spend less then $3000.00 on the entire project. I’ll have to do all the work myself, hopefully get a few friends and Lori to join in from time to time and I’ll have to look for bargains along the way.

This will not be a proper cellar, although I’ll be storing wine in it and plan on keeping it at 70 or below at all times. It also won’t be just a work area so I want to balance the space between counters, bottle racks, carboy and bucket shelfs and a small sitting area. I want to make a “Wine Cave” suited to our tastes and needs, maybe a TV but definitely a nice sound system. In return, the house office and garage closet and other odd areas that now catch my wine stuff can clear out. Lori gets a dedicated knit/hobby/library/office and I don’t have to drag everything out and then put everything away every time I want to work on wine.

My timeframe is pretty loose at this time. I’d like to have it finished next spring but realistically I think the basic shell will be done but I’ll still be working on all the interior finish work through the next summer. I guess I’ll make the final goal to have everything ready to initiate it with a bunch of fresh juice buckets next october. I plan on posting photos of progress regularly and since I’m in So. Cal. I should be able to work almost every weekend through the winter.

I’ve read so many of the threads here and learned so much from everyones comments and experiences that I hope anyone who has suggestions or questions will chime in. The plan is to get going on this seriously after Thanksgiving but I’ll start now by sharing a rough layout of the front of the building and the floor plan. It’s pretty small, 12’x12’, but fairly tall 11’ at the peak. I plan on using that height to make a comfortable loft area and to give me additional storage area without cutting into my floor space. Here’s the basic layout.

Wish Me Luck - I'll be needing it!
Mike

 

[the_rayway]

Hey Mike, this looks awesome! I wish we had the space to do something similar.

Just wondering: have you happened to do any research into Cob Houses? I'm wondering if that may be an interesting version of this that would cost very little, and be very temperature/moisture stable.

Keep us posted!

 

[pjd]

Nice Mike! Just too small. I'm working on plans to convert my Garage. I have out grown my Basement!

 

[LoneStarLori]

Nice design. But I have to agree about the size. If you're gonna go there, GO THERE. It can't be that much to do at least a 15 x 15. Can it?

 

[Runningwolf]

Mike, The sheds at Home Depot are not worth your investment. Believe me when I tell you this I am familiar with them. The others are correct about the size being too small. It looks big but as soon as you put shelving in there you will have a very difficult time moving around. Please forgive me, as I do not mean to pop your bubble but I'm just trying to save you from an expensive mistake and this is just my opinion. If you have a local shed builder or Amish in your area, you'll get a much better product and they can custom it to your needs. With studded wall you'll be able to insulate it later if you wish to do this, or maybe open the windows and cold stabilize the whole bunch and a few weeks later turn the heat back on. Sorry if I'm rambling as i'm typing as I'm thinking and wishing I could do this. Great idea!

 

[Scott]

Looks like a great plan but I have to agree with Runningwolf, if at all possible make it larger. A 12x12 would be verrrrrrry cozy.

Good Luck!

 

[novalou]

Looks like a great plan but I have to agree with Runningwolf, if at all possible make it larger. A 12x12 would be verrrrrrry cozy. Good Luck!

+1 on size, bottle racks will eat up room.

FYI, I just built a 12x12 shed with a concrete floor. It cost me $2000, doing all the work myself. Re-evaluate your budget. Water, electric, insulation will probably put you over your budget.

 

[bkisel]

What an awesome and ambitious idea!

If you're limited now to a 12x12 just give some thought NOW to a future expansion. You could think of your 12x12 as phase 1 of a 2 phase project.

 

[seth8530]

I agree, make it bigger if possible. Overall, it sounds like a really awesome project! Do not forget to insulte that fella up come winter and summer.

 

[sour_grapes]

On the other hand,

“The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.”
― Carl von Clausewitz

 

[JohnT]

I have been around construction all of my life. One of the lessons I have learned is that (on a cost per square foot basis) the bigger the building, the cheaper it gets. I would strongly suggest you increase your size.

I must warn you that 3,000.00 budget is not going to even come close. I am sure that you will need permits for electric and water. This alone (in NJ anyway) can cost a couple hundred dollars, even more when you figure on the customary bribes (Had to say it, I'm from NJ)

Here are a number of suggestions..

1) Rather than a stand alone building, It may be much cheaper to simply put on an addition directly onto your house. This way you don't need to go outside to get to your wine. Hooking up heat, plumbing, and electric also will become much cheaper.

2) build bigger. I have 1,200 sqft just for wine making and storage. The remaining 2,400 sqft is my wine cave equipped with a fireplace, TV, wet bar, wine racks, and leather furniture. I spend about 50% of my home-time in my wine cave.

3) DIG!!! See if it ia at all possible to get as much of that building under ground. This will save a fortune in cooling costs and will also help to regulate the temps in your winery.

4) LARGE DOOR!!! if you plan on having any sizable equipment (press, tanks, destemmer, etc) a nice large door sure make thing easy.

5) DRY WELL - believe me, a drain or drywell means that you can just hose things down when cleaning up. Think of what will happen if you drop a carboy.

6) Simple Concrete Floors in the winemaking area- much like #5 above, they are much easier to clean and remain "non-slick" when wet.

7) Full insulated partition between wine storage area and living area with separate heat zones. This way, you can keep your bulk wine at 55 degrees while having your living area at a much more comfortable temperature.

8) Hot water. Sounds dumb, I know, but hot water is soooo nice in the winery. When I first started (in my first house), all I had was an indoor spigot of cold water. Any hot water I needed, I had to bucket from the kitchen.


I hope that the above gives you food for thought. I can't imagine life without a dedicated wine making area and really nice place to do some sipping. All of the above are simply recommendations and I hope that I did not Pooh-Pooh all over you dreams.

Of them all, I would sacrifice everything else in favor of getting the most floor space possible. I would hate to see you go through off of that work, only to have regret just a short time thereafter.

The last I will say about it is this.. If you are going to make the substantial investment anyway, why not do it right the first time?

 

[Kraffty]

Thanks everyone, I have to agree with all of you about the size of this, evidently size DOES matter with this group. Unfortunetely I am limited to this foot print for a number of reasons that I can’t change for now. The suggestions did remind me that Lori had jokingly suggested she could already see me building an “add-on” once this was finished. I can design in, ahead of time, an area where I could build a 5’x8’ walk in type pantry area on the east wall. I’m also lucky that the family has a cabin where we store wine now and has room for loads and loads more. That means I can leave out most of the wine racks I planned on to give me more floor space. It’ll still be very cozy but a vast improvement over my existing set-up.

I’m so envious of the space many of you have to work with, my 50’s tract house in L.A. county is less that 1000 square feet. My lot is only about 65 x 140 and that’s considered big around here. I’m already gearing up for a Phase 1 (2014) and Phase 2 (2015) to work towards. The idea of adding on to the house would be ideal but I don’t have a good place to build on to. I do already have water and electrical to the slab location. John T, if I ever get to the east coast, can I come by and see your set-up, you could fit 3 of my houses in your “hobby area”, very cool!

So here is the revised concept. Pics of where I’m setting this and it’s slab coming next.

 

[Kraffty]

Quick thought. John T's suggestions got me thinking that we have a lot of different people here that take their wine making to a lot of different levels. I see myself as comfortable eventually having 8 or 10 6gal carboys going at once. A few 5's 3's and 1's too but that's on the high end. Maybe start a kit every other month and a fruit or juice wine in between. I don't ever see having serious equipment or doing large batches of any kind. I know there are people here that consider that a lot and many more that consider that a very small amount. While all that could and probably will, to some degree, change over time it's what is guiding my design for now.

I guess I'm trying to say thanks, these comments are making me think more about what I need to end up with to fit my needs better. I don't feel off track but I'm already looking at some of my original notions a little differently.
That's a good thing!
Mike

 

[DoctorCAD]

3 things come to mind as I look at your floor plans.

1. If at all possible, run the plumbing closer to the center of the room, less worry about pipes inside a cold wall bursting.

2. Your "loft" is much too low. I don't think any inspection (you did consider inspections, permits, graft and local government corruption, didn't you?) would ever pass it. And it would make the entrance feel "cave-like". Can you move the sink in-board and put the loft opposite the door?

3. The biggest...your budget is a bit thin, like 3 gallons of juice in a 6 gallon carboy thin. A well made 10 x 16 shed without insulation, finished walls, electrical or plumbing is over $3000.

Hope you can do it as a guide to those of us that wish we could!

 

[JohnT]

Quick thought. John T's suggestions got me thinking that we have a lot of different people here that take their wine making to a lot of different levels. I see myself as comfortable eventually having 8 or 10 6gal carboys going at once. A few 5's 3's and 1's too but that's on the high end. Maybe start a kit every other month and a fruit or juice wine in between. I don't ever see having serious equipment or doing large batches of any kind. I know there are people here that consider that a lot and many more that consider that a very small amount. While all that could and probably will, to some degree, change over time it's what is guiding my design for now.

I guess I'm trying to say thanks, these comments are making me think more about what I need to end up with to fit my needs better. I don't feel off track but I'm already looking at some of my original notions a little differently.
That's a good thing!
Mike

You are correct. We are all different here and operate at different levels. If you took the amount of wine Runningwolf makes (as a professional), it would make what I do look like a 3 gallon carboy.

I never brag about the amount I make and I certainly never look down on those folks that just make a couple of kits a year. I'll have you know that one of the best wines I ever tasted was from a kit that Joeswine made.

We are all winemakers, artists with a true passion, and that is to be respected.

Never feel bad about making less... Feel bad when a batch of wine goes south!

johnT.

 

[iVivid]

I have 1,200 sqft just for wine making and storage. The remaining 2,400 sqft is my wine cave equipped with a fireplace, TV, wet bar, wine racks, and leather furniture. I spend about 50% of my home-time in my wine cave. area with separate heat zones. This way, you can keep your bulk wine at 55 degrees while having your living area at a much more comfortable temperature. 8) Hot water. Sounds dumb, I know, but hot water is soooo nice in the winery. When I first started (in my first house), all I had was an indoor spigot of cold water. Any hot water I needed, I had to bucket from the kitchen. I hope that the above gives you food for thought. I can't imagine life without a dedicated wine making area and really nice place to do some sipping. All of the above are simply recommendations and I hope that I did not Pooh-Pooh all over you dreams. Of them all, I would sacrifice everything else in favor of getting the most floor space possible. I would hate to see you go through off of that work, only to have regret just a short time thereafter. The last I will say about it is this.. If you are going to make the substantial investment anyway, why not do it right the first time?

OMG you would be my dream man lol

 

[Scott]

If a 12x12 is what you can do now then so be it, it's more than what you had and maybe all you will need. Might have to pass on the big comfy chairs and go with stools and a high top table to save room. Good luck

 

[JohnT]

OMG you would be my dream man lol

I spent a year looking for the right house..

The former owner of my house used this space as a wood shop. It has it's own heat zone, is below grade at the back of the room, and has big double doors that open at ground level in the front (NO STEPS!!!!).

I got into a bidding war over this house and ended up paying $2,000.00 more than the seller's asking price.

The only way they will get me out of that house is in a pine box!

 

[iVivid]

I spent a year looking for the right house.. The former owner of my house used this space as a wood shop. It has it's own heat zone, is below grade at the back of the room, and has big double doors that open at ground level in the front (NO STEPS!!!!). I got into a bidding war over this house and ended up paying $2,000.00 more than the seller's asking price. The only way they will get me out of that house is in a pine box!

Hope not anytime soon!

 

[Kraffty]

Here is a pic of where the winehouse will end up (to the left of the orangre tree facing me) and one of the new slab. Foundation is in place. No changing my mind about placement or size or where the electrical or water come into the slab at this point. My concrete guy was looking for work and discounted a few hundred dollars if I could have him do it a little earlier than originally planned. I saved about $250.00 by doing this part ahead of schedule, besides, the slab will have plenty of time to completely dry before I start building on it. With the holidays upcoming I’m not sure if I’ll be able to start framing before the end of year or not. So Far I've found a very heavy old french door for 50.00 and am keeping my eyes open for bargains on windows, maybe returned or wrong sized orders from the builder supply stores. Guess I'll throw an airlock on this project until January then jump back on it at full speed in 2014.
Mike