Thinking about making the plunge, should I?

[mainshipfred]

I've been off kits and on grapes for the last 3 years now and want to add just a note of caution. Kits can be really consistent, give 5 of us the same kit and they'll probably come out pretty similar. Give 5 of us 3 lugs of grapes and you'll probably get 5 very different wines. There is a bigger learning curve and if your first go-around isn't what you expect don't give up. I think you'll end up with a better wine and speaking just for me a much better experience. Best of Luck! Mike

Very well put Mike.

 

[jsbeckton]

Crusher/destemer. Press. Vinmetrica SC-300. All used. New, those three things would be a cool grand. If you don't have a pH meter of any kind, I'd get the Vinmetrica first. You can always go w/ juice buckets or buckets and a small amount of grapes to start. They can be crushed, destemed and pressed by hand. Then you can move up to a C/D and press from there if you like the results. If you don't, you can probably use the Vinmetrica in your brewing.

Have people been finding this stuff used fairly easily? I looked at Craigslist Pittsburgh and Facebook market place and not seeing much near me. Only a few very large presses and no crusher/destemmer. Am I looking in the right places?

 

[Boatboy24]

Have people been finding this stuff used fairly easily? I looked at Craigslist Pittsburgh and Facebook market place and not seeing much near me. Only a few very large presses and no crusher/destemmer. Am I looking in the right places?

Patience is key. Although if you're @mainshipfred , things seem to pop up all the time.

 

[Ajmassa]

Have people been finding this stuff used fairly easily? I looked at Craigslist Pittsburgh and Facebook market place and not seeing much near me. Only a few very large presses and no crusher/destemmer. Am I looking in the right places?

Yeah man. I’ve made some great purchases for used equipment. Just a lot of antique junkers to weed through. On craigslist you can set up so you receive an email alert when “grape/wine press, fruit crushers” etc etc are listed. I still have not gotten around to turning that off lol. (The Carboy alert is 90% “we by junk cars” ads)
Also “letgo” app and “OfferUp” app are fantastic. And actually bought a used crusher/destemmer I saw posted here on WMT last spring. They’re out there. Just requires patience. And luck.

 

[Ajmassa]

Well I’ll be damned @jsbeckton ! This post (and thread) may be of some interest to you.
wine equipment for sale - outside Pittsburgh
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/index.php?posts/711210/

 

[jburtner]

I haven’t made as many full bottles as most of these guys and gals but i’ve made quite a few empty bottles....

i switched to grapes or frozen must and won’t use kits anymore for reds. I make less now than when I first started. I’ll probably make some whites from kits or juice still.

You can use your all in one for beer too.

At one point I pirchased a bunch of used carboys off CL. Great value and i picked up some of all sizes. Love the cute little 3g carboys

Good luck!
-johann

 

[jgmann67]

Have people been finding this stuff used fairly easily? I looked at Craigslist Pittsburgh and Facebook market place and not seeing much near me. Only a few very large presses and no crusher/destemmer. Am I looking in the right places?

When searching on craigslist (and if you're not doing it already), expand your search to the 200 mile radius around your home zip code. You may have to take a ride to NY, WVa or OH to get what you want.

I'm a big fan of my AIO. It would be my first purchase after picking up the basics; then the vinemetrica-300. I would put a crusher and destemmer at the bottom of my list - many distributors will offer c/d service for free or cheap. Save your money till you can get exactly what you want. Also, if you're looking for how to make a bucket press, check youtube - 3 buckets, a spigot, brew bag, a drill and about an hour... viola.

Here's mine:

I'm only 3 vintages in to fresh grapes. Too soon for me to tell, but I think wine from fresh grapes will be head and shoulders better than kit wines.

 

[Bts]

I was surprised just how well the bucket press worked. I just did my first all grape batch this year and got 8 gallons out of 3 lugs of valdepenas. Just use 2 5 gal buckets inside a 6 gal juice bucket as the collector. Then hop right in there to get your full body weight on it...helps if you're, ahem, larger . I also dumped out and broke up the cake twice and re-pressed like I read about on another thread here. Can't remember how much extra juice I got but the skins went from still pretty wet after the first press to quite dry after the 3rd.

 

[peterseng]

I am in the process of making the same transition. I did my first batch from fresh grapes this fall - small batch from some concord that grew at a friend's house. Not sure yet how the wine will turn out, but I definitely enjoyed the process far more and learned a LOT!
Since then, I have made arrangements with two families I know who have grape vines growing wild on their properties. I will tend the vines and then be able to make wine from the grapes. For my first batch this fall(about 2 gallons) I de-stemmed by hand and crushed with a potato masher in the primary. For a press, I put the must into a muslin bag and twisted/squeezed by hand. All do-able for this small 2 gallon batch, but if the vine tending goes well, next fall I will have quite a bit more to work with. Sadly I doubt I'll be able to invest the kind of money I've seen for a crusher/de-stemmer and wine press. I have been eyeing used equipment, but (as has been stated above) it's all timing and luck.
I noticed two in-expensive ideas in this thread that I'd like to know more about. First of all, using milk crate(s) to crush and de-stem the grapes. Secondly, making a bucket press. Both seem like they might work well for the anticipated volume (Three varieties - probably between 10 and 20 gallons total) and do so for a much more reasonable price. Can anyone provide more information or links that would show how to make these improvisations work?

 

[Bts]

A bucket press is real simple. Just 3 buckets inside each other and drill a zilion small holes in the middle one. Bottom one catches the juice, grapes get dumped in the middle drilled one, and the top one is the press that you just push down or stand on. Some people use 3 of the same buckets and drill a hole in the bottom one to let the juice drain out into another collection vessel, but I just used a 6 gla bucket for the bottom one and 5 gal for the others so there' s a gallon of space in the bottom one. The 5 gal ones can only hold maybe 50 to 70 lbs of grapes, and you'll get under a gallon per press. This is for red fermented skins that have had the free run drained off already. Not sure it'd work so well on unfermented white grapes. I did 3 lugs(108 lbs, 11.5gal must, 8 gal wine) and had to do it in 2 batches, but it was fairly easy. Haven't tried the milk crate thing..just squeezed/destemmed with my hands

 

[ceeaton]

Then hop right in there to get your full body weight on it...helps if you're, ahem, larger .

That's why Jim likes when I visit, bigger butt leads to better extraction (and probably more tannins). Though I think the table he's showing in his image would scream like a little girl and go running for cover if I walked into the room.

 

[heatherd]

I started with kits and still make them.

What I've moved toward is this:
-Fresh pail of red juice + a lug of fresh grapes in the spring and fall - around $120-150
-Fresh juice buckets for whites in the spring and fall - usually around $60-70 and you have to pick up somewhere locally
-I will do one fresh all-grape batch every year - ranges but typically $200-225ish
-Frozen must in the off-season for reds typically from Wine Grapes Direct $130-250 + shipping

I have a few batches aging now that are from Presque Isle wine's fresh, shippable Australian juice, which is $75 + shipping:
https://www.piwine.com/order-australian-juice-for-wine-making.html

One thing to note, when making reds from juice/grapes, you'll want to do malolactic fermentation. That's a new process that doesn't happen with kits. Not complicated, just different.

 

[jgmann67]

That's why Jim likes when I visit, bigger butt leads to better extraction (and probably more tannins). Though I think the table he's showing in his image would scream like a little girl and go running for cover if I walked into the room.

Like this?

 

[ceeaton]

View attachment 52415

Like this?

Hah! That chair underneath you would have been metal kindling if I had been "pressing". You need to fill your glass.

Sorry I'm being short but I'm listening to the Eagles trying to loose to the foreskins.

 

[Stressbaby]

View attachment 52415

Like this?

r/Whatcouldgowrong/

 

[jgmann67]

r/Whatcouldgowrong/

Remain calm.... I'm a professional.

 

[baron4406]

I came to winemaking in a very round about way. Was a "bourbon maker" so many years then graduated to beer then wine. My fruit wine is great, grape wine is terrible. I started with juice buckets and ended up hating them. Then started doing grape/juice wines and they were almost as good a box wine. Then full grape and they are about as good a a $10 bottle of wine. I then tried some high end kits and even young they are worlds better than my grape wines, here in Pa you just can't get too many decent grapes. Now just to play around I'm trying out cheap kits that I heavily modify and I'm really liking the results. Yea I make too much wine lol. I actually have about 30 gallons of "juice" wine that doesn't really deserve bottles, so its gonna become brandy.

 

[jgmann67]

I came to winemaking in a very round about way. Was a "bourbon maker" so many years then graduated to beer then wine. My fruit wine is great, grape wine is terrible. I started with juice buckets and ended up hating them. Then started doing grape/juice wines and they were almost as good a box wine. Then full grape and they are about as good a a $10 bottle of wine. I then tried some high end kits and even young they are worlds better than my grape wines, here in Pa you just can't get too many decent grapes. Now just to play around I'm trying out cheap kits that I heavily modify and I'm really liking the results. Yea I make too much wine lol. I actually have about 30 gallons of "juice" wine that doesn't really deserve bottles, so its gonna become brandy.

There are a bunch of us Pennsylvania winemakers on here, Baron. Kits and grapes - the better the quality, the better the wine (that's the theory at least). Where in Pa are you?

PS. There's no such thing as "too much wine". Just wine you haven't opened yet.

 

[jsbeckton]

Are the Eastern PA winemakers on here getting grapes from CFP winemakers down in the strip? Happy with the quality? Anything better available?

 

[jsbeckton]

Just found a used press on Craigslist, still looking for a crusher/destemmer but should be able to give a batch of grapes a try this spring.