To MLF or not to MLF...?

[cmason1957]

I would wait until after oaking to add any cellaring tannins. May ended up that you don't need them at all, after oaking. Assuming you are oaking.

 

[Ignoble Grape]

Am I correct in assuming that you don't need a special type of MLF bacteria to do co-inoculation, and that most any basic MLF bacteria will work in either co-inoculation or post fermentation? The descriptions for most of these MLF bacteria on sites such as morewinemaking.com specify using it post fermentation only...but I understand that the new trend may now be changing towards co-inoculation. Thanks for the link.

MLF bacteria are much more sensitive than yeasties. You'll want to find the specifications for your particular strain and then follows the directions - I've never found them printed on the packaging. Scottlabs is a great place to start reading through the different types. You can absolutely find ML bacteria that produce low diacetyl (think rose style wines) that you'll want to pitch a few days after your yeast. The yeast can then consume some of that diacetyl during fermentation, further reducing the ML impact and helping to keep a clean, crisp wine - and stable from bottle MLF. But if you wanted to go for ML bacteria with mouthfeel and co-pitched with that particular strand, it would defeat the purpose.

Concur with @CDrew add Lysozyme if you want to prevent entirely (think pinot gris).

 

[Jbu60]

Let's back up a bit. Most if not all red wines should go through MLF. If you don't initiate it, natural processes eventually will. That will make your wine unstable during storage.

If you really want to prevent MLF, like in many white wines, you need to ferment and then use Lysozyme to prevent eventual MLF.

But for red wines, in nearly all cases, I recommend some form of MLF. Either deliberately with a known culture, or naturally. My vote is a known effective culture, co-inoculated during your initial alcoholic fermentation.

I'm researching the Lysozyme, thanks. Can you recommend one or two MLF bacteria for co-inoculation so I can do some research? Thanks again.

 

[AbruzziRed]

MLF bacteria are much more sensitive than yeasties. You'll want to find the specifications for your particular strain and then follows the directions - I've never found them printed on the packaging. Scottlabs is a great place to start reading through the different types. You can absolutely find ML bacteria that produce low diacetyl (think rose style wines) that you'll want to pitch a few days after your yeast. The yeast can then consume some of that diacetyl during fermentation, further reducing the ML impact and helping to keep a clean, crisp wine - and stable from bottle MLF. But if you wanted to go for ML bacteria with mouthfeel and co-pitched with that particular strand, it would defeat the purpose.

Concur with @CDrew add Lysozyme if you want to prevent entirely (think pinot gris).

Do you use a ML bacteria nutrient like Acti ML first?

 

[CDrew]

I'm researching the Lysozyme, thanks. Can you recommend one or two MLF bacteria for co-inoculation so I can do some research? Thanks again.

Sure, I use CH16. It tolerates higher alcohol, and has been 100% reliable. The main reason I like it though, is it's a direct inoculation culture, meaning, no hydration step or other prep. Just pull from the freezer and toss in the fermenting wine. The Chris Hansen website also discusses when to inoculate-basically says it's suitable for early, medium or late inoculation.

https://www.chr-hansen.com/en/food-...-beverages/cards/product-cards/viniflora-ch16
Many here also speak well of VP41, which I've never used, but plan to try next year.

 

[Ignoble Grape]

Do you use a ML bacteria nutrient like Acti ML first?

Sure, I follow whatever the technical specifications are for the ML bacteria. Some are super user friendly and you just toss it in. Simple is good.

 

[Jbu60]

Let's back up a bit. Most if not all red wines should go through MLF. If you don't initiate it, natural processes eventually will. That will make your wine unstable during storage.

If you really want to prevent MLF, like in many white wines, you need to ferment and then use Lysozyme to prevent eventual MLF.

But for red wines, in nearly all cases, I recommend some form of MLF. Either deliberately with a known culture, or naturally. My vote is a known effective culture, co-inoculated during your initial alcoholic fermentation.

Been thinking about ordering some Lysozyme to prevent MLF as you suggest (thanks!)...and am a little torn on the issue only because its fairly expensive especially when you add in the shipping... Plus, the other thing is that although I'm making about 120L of wine and aging it for a year before drinking, it will be all drunk by the following year's end...and so I feel like there is no real need to "stabilize" as it won't be aged much longer than that... I've done this kind of thing before, no MLF and no Lysozyme and never had any issues with corks popping or the like... But then again, I only bottle about half the batch that I make and its drunk shortly thereafter - the other half is usually passed around in jugs at family dinners. Had I started aging and collecting the wines I've made over the years I'd have a pretty nice collection by now but never got that far, burp.

 

[AbruzziRed]

Sure, I follow whatever the technical specifications are for the ML bacteria. Some are super user friendly and you just toss it in. Simple is good.

I ended up using CH16 with Acti-ML mixed with distilled water then gradually add in juice. I added this to the must 36 hours after pitching the yeast along with medium French oak chips. Hope this works.

 

[Aiserock]

Had I started aging and collecting the wines I've made over the years I'd have a pretty nice collection by now but never got that far, burp.

 

[heatherd]

I like VP41 and find it to be more reliable than most bacteria. I co-inoculate and add more MLB than required.

 

[Ignoble Grape]

Let us know how it goes!