Too new to know tastes - can you help?

[Dianna]

OK, so I backsweetened my first batch of Skeeter pee and sampled and something must be wrong, but not sure what. It does not taste the way everyone on this forum raves it should (to me) so I am hoping that some of you experienced people out there can give the new girl some help.

I would like it if someone could describe what they are tasting when they use certain terms:

What does "young wine" taste like?

What does CO2 taste like?

I assume that that the sulfur problem tastes like it smells (yuk).

I took the extra from the carboy and put it in the fridge (needed the room to sweeten ) and from yesterday to today, the taste of the wine has improved, but still - everyone else is so stoked about the triple berry skeeter that I am terribly dissapointed by how mine tastes. I suspect that it is CO2. but not knowing what that would taste like, I am unsure. Thanks in advance.

 

[Deezil]

What does "young wine" taste like?

Mostly like green apples, if i was to label it a flavor... Tart, alcohol-forward a lot of the time.

What does CO2 taste like?

Co2 makes a taste-test tingle on your tongue, it has a bite to it.. Think of the difference between a just-opened soda, and one thats flat from being open for a day... That's Co2..

If you're wondering if your wine has Co2 in it still, put some in a 750ml bottle filled to about the shoulder, put your thumb on top & shake it... There will be a little bit of pressure even on a bottle thats flat, but you'll know if it has co2 in it by how much pressure you feel

I assume that that the sulfur problem tastes like it smells (yuk).

Sulfur problems usually smell like rotten eggs from what i've noticed... Not sure if ive tasted it or not

 

[Sirs]

well main question I'd ask you is this to describe what your tasting. You know what does it taste like to you as in sour,bitter to sweet not sweet enough so on

 

[Julie]

As Sirs said it would be better if you explain what you are tasting and what you do not like about it.

My first thought was maybe you did not sweeten it enough. I would sweeten sp to about 1.006 to 1.010. Skeeter pee would improve slightly with age but not much. The wine was designed as an early drinker.

 

[southlake333]

A few questions.

What was your SG before and after sweetening?
How much sugar did you add?
Did you just mix the sugar in or did you dissolve it in hot water first?
Did you taste before sweetening? If so, what did it taste like then?
How would you describe the taste after sweetening?
How did the taste change from the before/after samples?
How long has it been since you started this batch?
How long has it been since fermentation stopped?

I just bottle my skeeter pee yesterday so I'll give you my experience. Before sweetening it had a major lemon bite to it (think of sucking on a raw lemon). After sweetening with 4 cups of sugar to an SG of 1.008 it tasted like a very light lemon beverage. I would not call it a lemonade as that description would be for a much heavier (and more sugary) type drink. This is just a light, smooth drinking lemon wine that goes down easy with a tiny bit of lemon bite to it.

Now as for the young wine taste...Deezil described it pretty well with "Tart, alcohol-forward". My description is typically "a strong alcohol after bite". That taste mellows within a week or so and continues to mellow with time.

 

[Dianna]

OK, I am going to give it my best shot. However I already know I made a ton of mistakes on this one....
Starting SG was 1.040
Day 5 I read SG at .990 - however I believe that Misread this because I racked over from primary to secondary and this thing continued to ferment like a freight train for about another week. I suspect that this is my main problem, because i added all the stuff before it was really done fermenting. I did not check final SG before backsweetening (another error I now know).
I added 4 cups of sugar which I dissolved in hot water first, and then let cool overnight.
Before sweetening - it was really terrible - sour, and what I call sharp, with a bit of an off scent, but not sulfur. Also a yeast taste, and from description above I would definitely say CO2.
First day after sweetening still very bad, second day a bit better. I actually tried a penny test to verify that I don't have a sulfur issue, and though with stirring pennies in the stuff it did seem to improve a bit, since I don't smell sulfur it did more to verify my theory of CO2 being dissipated than anything.
I just pulled a sample from the carboy to taste as I write this and I could call it astringent. It is hard to taste the sweetness of the wine under this sharp astringent flavor. It reminds me of the rare occasion that i open a bottle I get at the store and I end up dumping it down the drain because the taste is what I call "gone bad"
I started this batch on 6/10/12, and fermentation was complete around 6/23/12. - racked off lees on 6/29/12. So maybe it is still salvageable.
My husband is going to fix the brake bleeder kit that we have so I can try degassing with that. I shook the hell out of the carboy for a long time, but again the stuff wasn't really done fermenting so I hope that degassing will cure it.
Thanks all for the descriptions - they were really helpful and I am impressed at your creativity in coming up with the descriptions which was pretty fun actually, and I find difficult.
just so you know, you all rock

 

[Julie]

You started this on 6/10? You are moving way too fast. First huge mistake was the sg. Your abv is around 6.5%. It should be around 10%. You cannot degas a wine that is still fermenting, so yes you probably need to degass. Again, I think your main problem is low alcohol and an extrememly young wine. Is it clear?

 

[southlake333]

Starting SG was 1.040

Assuming you followed the recipe, your starting SG should have been much higher. That's ok though, it will just contain less alcohol in the end.

Day 5 I read SG at .990 - however I believe that Misread this because I racked over from primary to secondary and this thing continued to ferment like a freight train for about another week. I suspect that this is my main problem, because i added all the stuff before it was really done fermenting.

What "stuff" are you referring to here? If you added Add 1/2 tsp Kmeta, 2 1/2 tsp sorbate, and Sparkolliod, that will kill of the fermentation and start the clearing. If by "stuff" you mean energizer and the last bottle of lemon juice...then fermentation would continue and your SG reading must have been incorrect. It depends on which step you were following at this point.

I did not check final SG before backsweetening (another error I now know).
I added 4 cups of sugar which I dissolved in hot water first, and then let cool overnight.
Before sweetening - it was really terrible - sour, and what I call sharp, with a bit of an off scent, but not sulfur. Also a yeast taste, and from description above I would definitely say CO2.

Ok so this sounds like the young wine taste/smell. Basically you are smelling and tasting the byproduct of superactive yeast. This dissipates in time (weeks, not months).

What was your final SG after sweetening? You could pour out a bottle and measure now to get this.

It is hard to taste the sweetness of the wine under this sharp astringent flavor. It reminds me of the rare occasion that i open a bottle I get at the store and I end up dumping it down the drain because the taste is what I call "gone bad"

The lemon juice in this recipe can be fairly overpowering. Its possible that you need a bit more sweetness to suit your desired taste. Try mixing some Simple Syrup/Sprite/7up/etc into a glass of your pee to see how that affects the flavor.

I started this batch on 6/10/12, and fermentation was complete around 6/23/12. - racked off lees on 6/29/12.

When did you add sparkolloid? You only mention 1 racking here so I assume what you mean by "racked off lees on 6/29" is that it was done clearing at that point so you racked it into a bottling bucket for sweetening. But did you rack it prior to that per the Skeeter Pee directions?

As a point of reference, I started my pee on 6/11 and bottled on 7/1. So your timeframes look correct. Its really just a question of your process. If you took detailed notes, please post them so we can get a good idea of what you did when.

I'll add a follow up post with my notes so you can get an example.

 

[southlake333]

Below are my notes from the batch I just bottled for your reference. I number my wine batches so I can keep them straight.

Skeeter Pee
#8

6.25 bottles of 15 oz 100% lemon juice (e.g ReaLemon in the green plastic bottles or equivalent)
8 lbs + 2 cups sugar
3/4 tsp tannin
6 tsp. yeast nutrient (3 now, 3 later)
2 tsp. yeast energizer (1 now, 1 later)
Approx, 4 1/2 gallons water
1 packet Red Star Pasteur Champaigne Yeast
Potassium metabisulfite (Kmeta/Cambden)
Potassium sorbate (sorbate)
Sparkolloid
2 1/3 lbs sugar (or 6 cups) to sweeten finished Skeeter Pee. Use more or less for your tastes.
Add bentonine during primary fermentation per directions.

1.070 - Starting SG
To the primary on Monday 6/11, I added 3.25 bottles of the Lemon Luice, 8 lbs + 2 cups sugar, 3/4 tsp tannin, 3 tsp yeast nutrient, 1 tsp yeast energizer, and enough filtered water to make five (5) gallons. I stirred the must very well to make sure all of the sugar was disolved. I let this stand, loosely covered, for about a day.

I made a yeast starter with 1 cup of warm (100F) filtered water, 1 tbsp sugar, 2 tbsp of the lemon must, and one packet of yeast, waiting 15 minutes before stirring it up good and pouring it into the must. I then gave the must a vigorous stirring. My SG was right at 1.070. Within a few hours I had good active fermentation.

SG of 1.060 Thursday night 6/14.

SG of 1.042 Fri night 6/15. Added 3 tsp yeast nutrient, 1 tsp yeast energizer and last 3 15oz bottles of lemon juice.

SG of 1.030 Sunday. Racked to secondary.

6/22 - SG of 0.999. Siphoned into bucket onto campden crush and potassium sorbate (using quantities on packages), then poured in sparkolloid solution on top of that. Mixed thoroughly (degassed a little) then siphoned back into carboy.

Clearing started immediately and a lot of sediment was visible on the evening of 6/22.

By 6/24, the top portion was a little bit see through while all of it was semi clear.

7/1 - completely clear with an SG still 0.999. Sweetened with 4 cups of sugar dissolved in water to a final SG of 1.008. Bottled into 14 wine bottles, 23 beer bottles and 3 flip top bottles.

Tastes great, like a light lemon beverage. Not a lemonade, not quite a normal wine but very tasty.

 

[Dianna]

Wow! a bit overwhelming but I will give this a shot.
First - the taste is improving daily. Lucky me for having to taste test so frequently. I now know for a fact that there is still CO2 in the wine and that is the main issue with the taste.
here is what has been going on:
JJ - the stuff I added is the tsp of potassium metabisulfite and 3 tsp potassium sorbate - My shop doesn't have Sparkolloid so I used Isinglas - and it didn't "kill" the fermentation as it went on for another week or so beyond. I am learning a lot from you on how to take thorough notes - Here are mine:
Day 1 - mixed must. Dumped berries directly into primary no mesh bag available
Day 2 - pitched yeast - Redstar Champagne yeast (again my LHBS didn't have EC 1118)
Day 3 - fermenting well, SG 1.040 - Temp 78
Day 4 - SG 1.0 temp 82
Day 5 - SG .990 temp 79
Day 6 - racked to carboy (secondary) (shook lots to degas) added ingredients in step 4 of recipe. Isinglass instead of Sparkolloid. (6/15/12)
after more fermentation for another 5 days it slowed and I allowed to sit and clear another 5 days. wasn't happy with it clearing on the lees so racked. allowed it to clear another week and it looked good but the carboy was not full, so I racked to 5 gallon, backsweetened and thought it tasted terrible.
Now, as I said, it is tasting better daily, it looks crystal clear and beautiful, and I tried a pump on it and it definitely does still have CO2.
next step - I am going to buy a couple of bungs and have my husband drill one to fit the end of the pump so I can keep it attached with vacuum drawn. I plan to do this for about a week to insure that all CO2 is removed. As far as a lower alcohol content - not the case. I had 2 glasses last night and my kids were picking on me for being loopy so this stuff has some kick. I measured my final SG tonight and it is below .990 - off the paper.
Lessons learned - 1. this really is a hobby of patience.
2. practice reading the hydrometer
3. DON'T PANIC - and send forum members into a tailspin to try to help you if you don't really need it. (sigh)

Thanks to all of you for your help, advise, questions. I learned more from this one batch than everything I have done up to this date. The best news of all is that this wine is most likely going to be fine.
Thanks again everyone - especially you, JJ for posting your notes for me to see.

 

[southlake333]

Glad I could help and its great to hear the flavor is improving! I wouldn't worry too much about CO2. It sounds like you've degassed plenty so unless you absolutely hate carbonated drinks it should not affect the flavor negatively. I'd like to point out a few things though...

1. If your hydrometer is reading below .990 (off the paper), and if fermentation continued after it hit .990, you might need a new hydrometer. At that SG, there shouldn't be any sugar left to ferment, much less a week's worth of fermentation. I'd bet your hydrometer is measuring incorrectly.

2. Sounds like you did everything pretty much correctly. Have you tried sweetening more? A quick test (without having to make simple syrup) would be to take some Sprite, 7up, etc and mix a little into a glass with your pee. If the taste drastically improves, then maybe you just didn't sweeten enough for your taste.

3. I am noticing the pee does have a bit of an off smell and others on this forum have noticed the same. Its not noticable when drinking out of a bottle, only from a cup (something with a large mouth). Not a big deal but that might be something that worried you.

4. Patience is alot easier to come by after you've created a few batches and have lots of bottles to drink while you wait for a new batch to finish.

Have fun and start another batch! I just started 2 more 6 gallon batches last night. This time I'll do one with half lime juice and I'll experiment with adding flavors at backsweetening time. Mmmmmmm...

 

[Dianna]

Thanks again for everything, and let me know how the one with 1/2 lime juice comes out because I sooo would like to try that.