Trying Again but Confused by Kit Instructions

[amorgan]

No

Ok I added the pectic enzyme. The recipe suggested 1/2 tsp and the bottle suggested 1/8 (for my one gallon) so I added 1/4 tsp. I started with one quart strawberry concentrate from Coloma (frozen) then added 3.5 quarts water and 35 oz of sugar to make the syrup. That should give me about 4.5 quarts so when I get to secondary fermentation I will be able to fill the 1 gal carboy.

Now that I re-read this, 35 oz of sugar sounds like a lot! But that was the recipe.

 

[Jovimaple]

I usually check the SG every couple of days. If I am doing a small batch so the hydrometer won't float in the fermenting bucket, I sanitize the test jar for the sample. If you have sanitized everything that touches the sample, you can pour it back in and not waste it.

I have a couple of these: Hydrometer Alcohol Meter Test Kit Distilled Alcohol American-Made 0-200 Proof Pro Series Glass Jar

 

[Jovimaple]

No

Now that I re-read this, 35 oz of sugar sounds like a lot! But that was the recipe.

You may want to add some water to lower the starting SG.

Last year I decided to try a 1 gallon batch made with a 4 lb bag of craisins and 15 oz of raisins. I added water to a little over a gallon and then took the SG. Yeah, it was wayyyy too high. So my 1ish gallon ended up being about 2 1/3 gallons. It turned out okay, but definitely is high alcohol. I made some orange extract (orange rind pieces in vodka for a few months) and added some to the craisin wine. It is definitely drinkable.

I am at the one year mark now for my first wines (all fruit/country wines at first), and I have noticed they all ended up light on fruit and high in alcohol. So I have learned to increase the fruit and decrease the added sugar, to aim for about 10% abv instead of the 12-14% I was getting with my first wines. My later wines were better from the start and it will be interesting to see what those are like at the 1 year mark. (I saved 1 bottle of almost every batch to sample it at 1 year.)

 

[Jovimaple]

Re: pectic enzyme - I don't think you can overdose on that, so you should be fine. Others have posted that it works better during fermentation than after, so you need less up front and they have recommended double dosage if you end up needing it after fermentation is complete.

I have used it both during and after fermentation. I also added some in some peaches and raspberries I froze last fall, so when I pull them out later this spring to make peach wine and raspberry wine, the pectic enzyme will have gotten a head start on breaking down the pectins in the fruit.

 

[amorgan]

You may want to add some water to lower the starting SG.

Last year I decided to try a 1 gallon batch made with a 4 lb bag of craisins and 15 oz of raisins. I added water to a little over a gallon and then took the SG. Yeah, it was wayyyy too high. So my 1ish gallon ended up being about 2 1/3 gallons. It turned out okay, but definitely is high alcohol. I made some orange extract (orange rind pieces in vodka for a few months) and added some to the craisin wine. It is definitely drinkable.

I am at the one year mark now for my first wines (all fruit/country wines at first), and I have noticed they all ended up light on fruit and high in alcohol. So I have learned to increase the fruit and decrease the added sugar, to aim for about 10% abv instead of the 12-14% I was getting with my first wines. My later wines were better from the start and it will be interesting to see what those are like at the 1 year mark. (I saved 1 bottle of almost every batch to sample it at 1 year.)

How much water do you think I should add? Do you think the water should include frozen strawberries? How many?

 

[Jovimaple]

How much water do you think I should add? Do you think the water should include frozen strawberries? How many?

You certainly can add frozen strawberries but as they thaw, they will add a little more sugar. I would probably add a couple cups of water, stir well, and check the SG. Then add a couple more cups of water and check again. My target would be closer to 1.090 or below for a start.

If you do add strawberries, mash them up as they thaw, then add the mashed strawberries and juice and stir them in. If you are using a bag for the strawberries, just stir the juice in but mash down the bag once or twice a day during fermentation. If you haven't pitched the yeast yet, check the SG a few hours after adding the strawberries to see if they caused it to rise at all. If you have already pitched the yeast, though, you can skip checking it since once the yeastie beasties start working, the SG should already be on its way down so it'll be harder to see if it bumped up at all from the strawberries.

Most important step is to get the yeast going and let it do its magic!

 

[winemaker81]

Ok I added the pectic enzyme. The recipe suggested 1/2 tsp and the bottle suggested 1/8 (for my one gallon) so I added 1/4 tsp.

I generally trust the package, not the recipe, as the formulation by the manufacturer is not a constant. However, in this case, as @Jovimaple said, a large dose of pectic enzyme doesn't hurt. I admit surprise at the 1/8 tsp dosage, as the ones I've used have typically been 1/2 tsp per gallon.

I started with one quart strawberry concentrate from Coloma (frozen) then added 3.5 quarts water and 35 oz of sugar to make the syrup. That should give me about 4.5 quarts so when I get to secondary fermentation I will be able to fill the 1 gal carboy.

I tried to make a ratio to figure out how much the must needs to be diluted, but don't trust my numbers. Based upon 4.5 quarts of liquid, 2.5 quarts of water will bring the SG down to 1.096. It may be accurate, but I'm very cautious about trusting it.

I recommend that you add 1 or 2 cups water, stir really well, then test the SG. Repeat until you get a desired SG. I agree with @VinesnBines' suggestion to add more fruit, as if it needs diluting as much as I calculated, it will be thin. How much fruit? I'd go higher on the fruit, at least 6 lbs. [No one is disappointed when a fruit wine has too much fruit flavor, but the reverse is very untrue!]

You may desire a lower ABV wine, but for this one I believe you'll be disappointed in the fruit level if you dilute it that much. If it were me, I'd target 16% ABV and backsweeten, to make a dessert wine. This is not ideal, but it produces a drinkable result. Add an ounce of sparkling water in the glass to thin it a bit and give it a spritz.

If you have another quart of the concentrate, I'd add that and enough water to produce a desired SG.

If you produce a drinkable result, call it a win. On the plus side, you've learned a valuable lesson and will never make this mistake again, right?

 

[amorgan]

I generally trust the package, not the recipe, as the formulation by the manufacturer is not a constant. However, in this case, as @Jovimaple said, a large dose of pectic enzyme doesn't hurt. I admit surprise at the 1/8 tsp dosage, as the ones I've used have typically been 1/2 tsp per gallon.


I tried to make a ratio to figure out how much the must needs to be diluted, but don't trust my numbers. Based upon 4.5 quarts of liquid, 2.5 quarts of water will bring the SG down to 1.096. It may be accurate, but I'm very cautious about trusting it.

I recommend that you add 1 or 2 cups water, stir really well, then test the SG. Repeat until you get a desired SG. I agree with @VinesnBines' suggestion to add more fruit, as if it needs diluting as much as I calculated, it will be thin. How much fruit? I'd go higher on the fruit, at least 6 lbs. [No one is disappointed when a fruit wine has too much fruit flavor, but the reverse is very untrue!]

You may desire a lower ABV wine, but for this one I believe you'll be disappointed in the fruit level if you dilute it that much. If it were me, I'd target 16% ABV and backsweeten, to make a dessert wine. This is not ideal, but it produces a drinkable result. Add an ounce of sparkling water in the glass to thin it a bit and give it a spritz.

If you have another quart of the concentrate, I'd add that and enough water to produce a desired SG.

If you produce a drinkable result, call it a win. On the plus side, you've learned a valuable lesson and will never make this mistake again, right?

Thank you

 

[amorgan]

You certainly can add frozen strawberries but as they thaw, they will add a little more sugar. I would probably add a couple cups of water, stir well, and check the SG. Then add a couple more cups of water and check again. My target would be closer to 1.090 or below for a start.

If you do add strawberries, mash them up as they thaw, then add the mashed strawberries and juice and stir them in. If you are using a bag for the strawberries, just stir the juice in but mash down the bag once or twice a day during fermentation. If you haven't pitched the yeast yet, check the SG a few hours after adding the strawberries to see if they caused it to rise at all. If you have already pitched the yeast, though, you can skip checking it since once the yeastie beasties start working, the SG should already be on its way down so it'll be harder to see if it bumped up at all from the strawberries.

Most important step is to get the yeast going and let it do its magic!

Thank you!

 

[winemaker81]

@amorgan, a couple of my posts may help in figuring out sugar levels:

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/chaptalizing-wine/
https://wine.bkfazekas.com/fixing-fruit-wine-recipes/

 

[Rembee]

@winemaker81 and @VinesnBines are spot on.
You can never go wrong with more fruit. Also as @winemaker81 suggested, add the water slowly. I might add, that in between the water addition, stir the must very very well. Then take a hydrometer reading. Keep adding a cup or 2 of water, stirring in between as you go until the SG is where you want it. Also, having more wine then what you intended to make is never a bad thing. It will give you extra to top up with as you go through the racking process later.

 

[mainshipfred]

How often should I check the SG, and when, so we can figure out if I will need to make adjustments? Notice I said we lol. Thanks for your help.

I've not read the entire thread so I may have missed a few things. I think WE should to check the SG maybe in 2 days to make sure the fermentation started. After that every other day until you get close to 1.000. Since you are using EC-1118 I would imagine you may be to that point in 5 days or so. When it gets to 1.010 or 1.020 you could rack it to a carboy to finish. As far as adjustments I'm not sure what you are referring to so I can't help with that.

Edit: I really didn't read the entire thread, all these questions were already answered.

 

[winemaker81]

Edit: I really didn't read the entire thread, all these questions were already answered.

IMO it's useful to have validation from an experienced 3rd party.

@amorgan, what is your plan? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[amorgan]

Update - I finally figure it out! I need to pay closer attention to details. I was using a recipe that called for strawberries, mashed into juice, plus water, plus sugar. But instead of strawberries I was using 100% strawberry concentrate, which has a much higher sugar content than mashed strawberries. (To be honest, my son the brewer helped me figure it out.). I went back to the Coloma website and discovered a "dilution rate" of 1:9.4, which means when I used 4 quarts of water with the 1 quart of concentrate, plus the sugar, I had less than half the water I should have.

I started adding water two cups at a time and testing in between each, and I ended up adding 3.5 quarts of water. I stopped at 1.085 SG, approx 22 brix(?), with ABV 11.1% (or close to that). Whew! That sounds better. Good old reliable Lalvin EC-111 is actively doing its business, and I'll keep checking the numbers every other day.

My son gave me a refractometer to measure the sugar - is that number called "Brix"? It's easier to test one drop (if it's stirred well) than floating the hydrometer. Is there a reason most of you experienced wine makers almost always refer to SG, so seemingly prefer the hydrometer? Any downside to the refractometer?

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions! Without knowing my mistake, you were on the right track suggesting I needed more water. AND, I hope it tastes good, because as a result of the corrections, I will have two gallons of strawberry wine instead of one!

Lovin' WMF.
Ann

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I have found that refractometers are very unreliable unless you pony up and buy a high quality one.

 

[mainshipfred]

Update - I finally figure it out! I need to pay closer attention to details. I was using a recipe that called for strawberries, mashed into juice, plus water, plus sugar. But instead of strawberries I was using 100% strawberry concentrate, which has a much higher sugar content than mashed strawberries. (To be honest, my son the brewer helped me figure it out.). I went back to the Coloma website and discovered a "dilution rate" of 1:9.4, which means when I used 4 quarts of water with the 1 quart of concentrate, plus the sugar, I had less than half the water I should have.

I started adding water two cups at a time and testing in between each, and I ended up adding 3.5 quarts of water. I stopped at 1.085 SG, approx 22 brix(?), with ABV 11.1% (or close to that). Whew! That sounds better. Good old reliable Lalvin EC-111 is actively doing its business, and I'll keep checking the numbers every other day.

My son gave me a refractometer to measure the sugar - is that number called "Brix"? It's easier to test one drop (if it's stirred well) than floating the hydrometer. Is there a reason most of you experienced wine makers almost always refer to SG, so seemingly prefer the hydrometer? Any downside to the refractometer?

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions! Without knowing my mistake, you were on the right track suggesting I needed more water. AND, I hope it tastes good, because as a result of the corrections, I will have two gallons of strawberry wine instead of one!

Lovin' WMF.
Ann

Ann, the problem with the refractometer is the presence of alcohol will give you a false reading. There are conversions you can use but I'm not sure of the parameters. It is a nice tool to see if the fermentation is progressing.

 

[Raptor99]

Ann, the problem with the refractometer is the presence of alcohol will give you a false reading. There are conversions you can use but I'm not sure of the parameters. It is a nice tool to see if the fermentation is progressing.

It's not a false reading, but you do need to convert it to the equivalent SG using a calculator like this: Homebrew Refractometer Calculator The hydrometer reading is also changed by the presence of alcohol, which is why a finished wine will have an SG below 1.0. The times I have measured SG with the hydrometer as well as Brix with the refractometer the numbers came out very close. So at this point I mainly use the refractometer because of the convenience of only needing one drop for testing.

 

[winemaker81]

My son gave me a refractometer to measure the sugar - is that number called "Brix"? It's easier to test one drop (if it's stirred well) than floating the hydrometer. Is there a reason most of you experienced wine makers almost always refer to SG, so seemingly prefer the hydrometer? Any downside to the refractometer?

As Fred said, once fermentation begins, the refractometer reading is skewed by the presence of alcohol, and requires a translation table to get a useful value. A refractometer measures sugar, while a hydrometer measures SG. I advise against a refractometer during fermentation to avoid translation errors. YMMV

Without knowing my mistake, you were on the right track suggesting I needed more water.

Those of us who chimed in have been doing this a while. When the SG is high, the obvious answer is to dilute it. The only question is if reducing the SG thins the fruit too much.

Keep plugging away at it. It won't be all that long before you are the one helping the newbies.

Don't laugh. Folks we were mentoring a couple of years ago are mentoring others. It's sort of like when the kids grow up and spread their wings!

 

[hounddawg]

Update - I finally figure it out! I need to pay closer attention to details. I was using a recipe that called for strawberries, mashed into juice, plus water, plus sugar. But instead of strawberries I was using 100% strawberry concentrate, which has a much higher sugar content than mashed strawberries. (To be honest, my son the brewer helped me figure it out.). I went back to the Coloma website and discovered a "dilution rate" of 1:9.4, which means when I used 4 quarts of water with the 1 quart of concentrate, plus the sugar, I had less than half the water I should have.

I started adding water two cups at a time and testing in between each, and I ended up adding 3.5 quarts of water. I stopped at 1.085 SG, approx 22 brix(?), with ABV 11.1% (or close to that). Whew! That sounds better. Good old reliable Lalvin EC-111 is actively doing its business, and I'll keep checking the numbers every other day.

My son gave me a refractometer to measure the sugar - is that number called "Brix"? It's easier to test one drop (if it's stirred well) than floating the hydrometer. Is there a reason most of you experienced wine makers almost always refer to SG, so seemingly prefer the hydrometer? Any downside to the refractometer?

Thanks again for everyone's suggestions! Without knowing my mistake, you were on the right track suggesting I needed more water. AND, I hope it tastes good, because as a result of the corrections, I will have two gallons of strawberry wine instead of one!

Lovin' WMF.
Ann

as your son helped you, this forum is here so that we can help each other,
Dawg

 

[tomcaroledwards]

So I almost quit, but so many of you WMF friends talked me out if it and gave me great suggestions - one of which is to try a few kits first, until I get a better hang of it, then maybe go back to fruit. So - I bought a small amount of strawberry concentrate from Colomafrozen.com, to try a very small (1 Gal) batch, and I found a simple recipe that makes sense. I also bought a Cabernet Kit, but I'm not sure I trust the recipe/instructions - I attached a copy for your opinions.
1. I thought primary fermentation is usually in a bucket, with a lid on loosely to breathe, for about two weeks or until I reach SG at (or under) 1.0. This says primary is in a fermenter with an airlock for 25 days? And no mention of a tiny dose of Potassium Meta?
2. These instructions suggest bottling at 3 months. Shouldn't I instead rack it 2-3 times over the course of several months and maybe even a year before I bottle?
3. What the heck does "Transfer to a Bottling Bucket" mean? If I've been in secondary fermentation for 3 months being careful to limit O2 exposure with an airlock and all, why would I ever then transfer it to a bucket, then STIR in the potassium metabisulphite? Wouldn't I instead siphon to the bottles (or better yet to another carboy with my tiny dose of potassium metabisulphite for a couple/few more months)?
Thank you!
Ann

Ann. You will find that in winemaking (as in most things) it is a matter of opinion. With kit wines I think it is better to stick to instruction which are usually tailored to the must. When you have found your feet you can then experiment which is half the fun!